What Is “Deeper” Preaching
I spend a lot of time analyzing, “teaching,” or “preaching,” or whatever you want to call it.
I tend to spend about twenty hours a week preparing to teach on Sundays. Over the 15 years I’ve been teaching I’ve tried to grow in my effectiveness. A few key areas I’ve focused on are…
Growing in Biblical knowledge.
Incorporating the art of humor.
Making one point and making it well.
At the end of the day I want to preach in such a way that makes people want to know Jesus, follow Jesus, and learn more about Jesus. I know that people don’t transform because of a good message. They transform because of a great Jesus.
However, I get the same complaints that all you guys who preach get.
And at the top of the list? You guessed it. We want DEEPER teaching.
If I’ve heard it once, I’ve heard it a million times. And maybe they’re right. I know my preaching isn’t for everyone. Maybe they need to go sit under someone else who can preach more confusing, I mean deeper. Or maybe we all need to understand what “deeper” teaching is really all about.
Take a look at this incredible conversation between John Piper and Rick Warren. It sheds a lot of light on this particular topic. And thanks to Tony Morgan for sharing this video with all of us.
Great thoughts and great video clip. Thanks for sharing.
You bet Tony.
Pete, this is at the very least the most timely blog post of all time. I am awaiting a member to arrive at any minute who is leaving because I am not preaching deep enough. I am confident that I am being faithful to preach the Word, allowing Jesus and the Spirit to bring about real change in hearts… and yet, it isn’t enough. I am wrestling with what deep enough is, and more importantly, to maintain a humble spirit as I receive this feedback. Thanks for the timeliness.
And hey… have a nice day!
Praying the conversation went well. I’ve been on the receiving end of that one many times. If done in a grace filled way I’ve actually learned a lot from some of them.
I think the deepest preaching that can possibly be done is loving and serving. No message given on a Sunday morning can even come close to transforming someones heart like serving someone else. Those who complain that the sermon they sit and listen to isn’t ‘deep’ enough are expecting someone else to transform them and quite honestly aren’t at a spot where they can recieve what they seek regardless of the depth of the sermon. ‘Deeper’ preaching is not the problem. ‘Deeper’ serving is what we should seek. The love shown by those 40 people who went to Joplin last weekend speak louder to me than the deepest message any pastor could speak.
That’s good Josh. Really good.
This is an amazing way to put it. Great insight
That was deep!
This topic got me going…..Read this from J R Miller A Beautiful Life, after thinking about the “hidden Word”
There is a great deal of beauty in the world which lies too deep for our eyes. There are millions of stars in the depths of the heavens which no telescope reveals. Night unveils splendors which lie hidden in day’s glare.
One may write with invisible ink, and the words fade out after the pen, leaving no trace. Yet they remain in the paper, hidden there unseen and unsuspected by any eye that scans it. but if one day the paper be exposed to heat, the hidden words come out in all clearness, every line appearing in distinctness.
There is a sense that the revealing of God in the Bible are hidden.They are not hidden because God keeps them from us, but because we must be brought in a certain condition before we see them.
Rick Warren is exactly right. I have a friend who likes to complain that the preacher should be “telling him something he doesn’t already know.” As if there are some unexplored books of the Bible or hidden doctrines that aren’t being explained — when in actual fact, the kind of “deeper teaching” I and my friend both need is teaching which will continue to turn our hearts from stone to hearts of flesh that beat faster for Christ and help us trust him and obey him better each day.
Too often, people who make these complaints depend on their “Sunday experience” to be the only nourishment that they get. They are usually not willing to feed themselves Monday through Saturday.
boom goes the dynamite
I think trying to tell people stuff they don’t know just leads to preachers making stuff up.
Pete,
I think you just coined a new bumperstickerable truth!! “Dang-tootin’!!” I’d say.
Thanks, Pete. Great stuff.
That’s a great clip from two guys I respect a ton and a half. Honestly, I don’t see how people think you’re not preaching deep enough. Your sermons have so much meat in them that you need a Holy Toothpick to get the remnants from your teeth after feasting on them.
Ha! Thanks Jason.
I have recently had a friend tell me that he and his wife want to go to a different church because the preaching is deeper. I asked him what that even meant and he said “its a place where I can go and dive into a passage instead of listening to topical preaching.” I guess I understand what he means by opening the bible and listening to a passage but at the same time, if you truly want to know my opinion, its that people who complain and want “deeper” preaching are lazy. They want deeper preaching so that they dont have to do any of the study themselves.
As a youth pastor, I have students who are more enthralled in learning about the bible than some adults do. It is incredible however to watch the students that come into services that pay attention vs the ones that dont. The ones that pay attention you can tell want more. They seek more. THe one’s that dont, just come and lolly gag in lala land.
I think my question is not do you go deeper, its how do you get the people listening to want to go deeper on their own? I think it’s a heart issue, but maybe it is something that needs to change in my preaching style.
I would agree with you on the laziness issue. Unfortunately, I think some people go to Sunday service truly wanting to know God better, but they want the Bible read to them in substitution of personal study, and that simply can’t be done logistically. It took J. Vernon McGee 5 years to go through the Bible 5 days a week on the radio. That’s about 25 years if you stretch that out to one lesson per week.
I wonder sometimes if what people are really asking for is more challenging preaching and just using the word “deeper” to explain it. At our old church, we had the same complaint that the preaching was not deep enough. We are now at a church that is more challenging and now the truth of the Bible is hurting us a little bit.
That’s a fair point Russ.
“Deep is life transforming”
I would say that folks looking for “deeper” would have complained about Jesus’ teaching too. He taught on a very simple, yet life-changing level. Think about the core of His message: love God & love people. How simple is that? And He used simple stories to make His point. Lost coins. Lost sheep. A lost son. We can muddy the waters with 12 letter words but is that going to reach the lost? Is it important to reach the lost or to sound good from the round table/pulpit? That was Jesus’ point: cleaning up muddy lives with a clear message.
I’m a big fan of deep. Ask the ladies who think I’m a weirdo in my Bible study
I just gotta say, Pete, you’re deep. I get so much out of your preaching (and Justin’s and Blake’s) because you’re able to distill truths down to something relevant and applicable. That’s where I struggle. I get so ‘deep’ into theology that sometimes I’m not sure what to do with all the cultural symbolism and cool metaphors I just dug up. LOL
On Sunday, I get something that is meaningful and useful (based on actual scripture and not pop-psychology) that opens the Bible up to me in new, amazing ways.
Keep it coming!!
You bet Sally.
To be fair or simply to offer a different perspective than other comments, I don’t think all ‘I want deeper teaching’ people are lazy or missing the point. I believe there are some legitimate reasons why someone could want ‘deeper teaching’.
1. Ungifted teachers. There are many churches pastored by leaders who just aren’t gifted communicators. I’m not saying you have to be Rick Warren or John Piper. I’m just saying you have to be gifted/called to teach. Its surprising how many preachers aren’t actually preachers.
2. Different expressions. Some people are just wired for a different expression of teaching. Its not better or worse. Its just different. Just like some people prefer contemporary rock and roll type worship while others connect easier with hymns. Again, not better or worse. Just different. Like Matt Chandler is different from Andy Stanley. Both incredible communicators but far different expressions.
So yea, I think its okay to ask for ‘deeper teaching’ if you are under a pastor that’s obviously not a gifted communicator or maybe your simply jive better with an expression of expository or topical preaching.
Having said all that, I agree that most of the time, the gripe with deeper teaching is usually from super religious people who are missing the whole point….
Would you agree with either of those points Pete?
It would be hard for me to argue against either one of those point Sammy. I do think those are valid issues.
So true, there is a vast difference between deep & confusing, & also simple & simplistic.
Going to a bible college, where I had actual “preaching” classes while I was taking Greek blurred the lines between deep & confusing for me a lot. We would preach in class to peers who were taking the same classes we were, essentially not even thinking about the fact that when we got into the real world that most people wouldn’t know what we were talk the fact that Luke used a particular Greek word instead of another that Matthew didn’t & it’s translated the same way.
I’ve been out of school 2 years now, & I’m just learning my own style & how to teach simply deep & not just confusing. By no means was this the fault of my professor, but learning to preach/teach in a group of Bible scholars, conditions you to get pretty confusing.
Looking back, mu professor was one of the simplest preachers I’ve ever heard, but he was incredibly deep. If there was only one thing I learned from him, it was bring every sermon, message, teaching, lesson…whatever you want to call it, around to Jesus because he is the one who changes lives.
Sometimes “getting deep” just makes you sound very weird and religous. Maybe we should just stay real and just genuinely be ourselves.
Good advice Michelle.
My opinion is that Deep Preaching is a message that my brain wants to play with even after I have turned off my computer, left the sanctuary or the classroom. Deep preaching makes me want to go to someone else and say…”I heard so and so preach a message today that rocked my world would you like to hear about it?” Or when I call someone up and say “You HAVE to go listen to so and so’s message on __________________________.”
Make me think, make me repeat it, and you’ve covered ‘deep’ for me.
I don’t know. I used to like intelligent debate. In Church I like to be challenged. But what is more challenging than the simple notion of love and forgiveness? Yes, I have heard friends say that they’ve heard that message since Sunday School and want something “deeper”. I’m afraid that I often need to be reminded to forgive and to love.
And why is it we have no problem listening to the same simple pop songs over and over, but we want to move on from simple but important messages like forgiveness and love?
From a man in the pew prescriptive…I certainly agree that a message on any given Sunday should be simple and yet fresh.I have never found the gospel complicated… Love God, Love People!
I did attend a place that is a “Seeker” church, and fully understood that weekend sermons were directly toward transforming unconvinced people. Was great with that and embrace it.
What I found was that is where is stopped, once convinced there was not anything to help disciple the ‘babes in Christ’. There were small groups but there was a ‘curriculum’ that all groups followed, and it was based on the Sundays ‘seeker’ sermon. I was no longer a seeker, but convinced. Although I tried to push my group leader it was to no avail and I chose to move on.
My hope is that any church is offering classes, or small groups that allow for people that want to dig into word studies, and what did the words of Jesus and Paul’s letters mean to those that heard them first. How did they interpret them? That to me is the going deep, and can be life changing.
From the perspective of one who has logged much time in a pew/seat. Thanks for bringing a message that although it may not hit me between the eyes, there is always a take away to chew on.
One of the things my church does is ‘leverage’ so to speak the local seminary. They bring in professor, grad students and the others to do short 3-4 week studies on different, so for those of us that might complain about going deeper, we are given ample opportunity to go as deep as we want.
Good stuff.
If I don’t understand what I heard in a sermon, I won’t apply it to my life. When I get a “deep tissue” massage, I feel it for days. A sermon should be like that, shouldn’t it?
Simply dismissing people who are calling for “deep” as lazy or “missing the point” is near sighted. Each week most of our churches are filled with people who are at different places along their journey with Jesus. And, hopefully, each one wants to be challenged to take that next step.
But that call to the next step is going to look different for someone who is new to that faith and the people who have followed him for 20 years. This is a difficult balance we as preachers have to negotiate.
I don’t get the critique that I need to be deeper…and I don’t use 12 leader words, never studied Greek and grew up in Kentucky.
But I don’t dodge tough topics…and I try to give everyone something to do with what they have learned. Deep is an issue of doing the word not simply hearing it.
PS…The Writer of Hebrews decries his frustration because he wanted to stop having to go over the same foundational teachings like, “repentance from acts that lead to death, and faith in God, instructions about baptisms, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement.” Hebrews 6:2-3
He wanted to move on from these “elementary truths” and go deeper.
We have to be careful not to dismiss people in our churches who are longing for the same thing this writer of scripture is.
Man, this topic usually fires me up! I recently blogged about it. I titled it “Are You Communicating or Trying to Impress?” Great communicators do now show off how much they know to the point of overwhelming or confusing someone else. That’s the fodder of insecure, pseudo intellectuals who want to make sure you know they are smarter than you.
As a member of Cross Point and the oldest living board member of the church, I really appreciate your ability to speak to both my mind and heart.
I’ve had my share of theological education over the years. Often I have used that knowledge to become a more sophisticated sinner.
Thanks for speaking into my life in a fresh way every weekend.
I will be honest that I have been the person wrestling with the question of do a need a church with more depth. I think Warren is right that we need to know what the person is really saying. Some want more scripture and less topical teaching, some want more language and theology study. I think for many though it really goes back to something you said yesterday,”people following you desperately want and need to be led.” When I was asking those questions it was because I wanted and needed to be discipled, and I was looking to my pastor to do that. I didn’t need more depth, I needed to apply what I knew to my life. Two years ago, I finally had that opportunity, and the discipleship changed my life. I needed someone to show me how to open up scripture and to teach me tools. I am a PK (pastor’s kid). I have attended church all my life and been a believer for over 25 years. I go to small groups, lead youth and other groups for 20+ years, and I still didn’t get it. I needed to be led. My foundation was built on wrong things or things that I really didn’t understand. It needed to be rebuilt.
I also came across some work by Janet Hagberg & Robert Guelich on Spiritual Formation or Spiritual Development. (Here is a summary of the 6 stages http://kathyescobar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/stages-of-faith.pdf). They state that most churches are created around reaching stages 2 or 3, and those that push through the wall and grow toward greater maturity then might struggle with certain concepts in many churches.
My discipleship and growth have led me back to greater simplicity. I returned to the greatest commandments, and since I still haven’t mastered loving God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength or loving my neighbor at all times, then I don’t need more depth. I just want to learn to live out what I already know, and I hope my church and connections to other churches like Cross Point’s online campus will help me in that pursuit.
Every sermon ever preached should end with a pleading prayer for people to turn to Gods Word!(in other words don’t take my word for it see for your self) No mater what the topic is the sermon is about.
EVERY TIME!!!
Either read, Ipod, CD, DVD, what ever it takes.
How can they complain when you through it right back in there lap.
They would just be complaining to there selves.
Love this. I totally agree with Rick Warren’s explanation. Deep teaching isn’t difficult it’s applicable to our lives. It promotes life change. What better example do we have than Jesus.
Pete, I actually love the way you preach and deliver your message. You speak in plain English with a bit of goofy thrown in! Keeping a sermon short, sweet and simple is how you’ll keep my attention. Going into a topic deeper is great in a study aptmosphere. Don’t change because you’ll never please everyone.
“that wasn’t deep… it was muddy.”
EXACTLY. i want to be told the Truth, and pointed in a direction where I can learn more so I can continue to grow in my faith. But the more complicated, or muddy, it is when you’re telling me the Truth, the less I’m going to pursue more on my own because I’ll be too overwhelmed trying to wade through the mud to start.
I’m processing the same concepts myself. Great post and video…thanks!
My pastor gets this all the time too. It’s sad really. If someone if faithfully preaching the gospel and the Holy Spirit is there who cares? This is just my experience so I’m not trying to paint anyone with a broad brush, but the people I know who complain that they want “deeper teaching” want their brains tickled instead of their hearts changed. It seems to give them a sense of pride that they can understand all the deep theological questions of the universe (Good for them, I’m still trying to live out the basics and I need God’s grace every day to do so
) What God really wants is our hearts not our knowledge. God doesn’t care what you know, He wants you to seek Him…that means you seek Him apart from Sunday mornings.
Man, I had this video come into my inbox the other day and I deleted it in a click-happy clean up session of my email.
I love how Rick Warren gets to the heart – he is right, at the heart is where it is deep. He slammed all over depth when he said if you can get to the heart and character of someone, that is where life change occurs; that’s deep. Theological jargon doesn’t grab the hearts of everyone (most times is flies over most peoples’ heads) – you need to be able to meet the majority of people of where they are at; how Christ meets us all where we are at.
I think the desire for deeper preaching is the longing for answers that satisfy. Christ accomplished so much more on the cross than the forgiveness of our sins and providing tickets for us to get to heaven. Christ demolished Satan’s power to keep the human race from connecting with God and from receiving the life that is more abundant than the loss, death, and destruction that the kingdom of evil has savaged our world with. We have just barely scratched the surface of the power of what Christ did accomplish on the cross and I believe people want to delve below the surface to find the treasures of God’s absolute love.
However, and more to the point, there is the education OF worship. We do a significant amount of teaching about who God is, and who we are, in the way we do worship. The activity of preaching is part of this, even if a particular sermon is not about passing on information, per se.
Just thought I’d share something with you.
Preaching and teaching that is really different (although totally Christian)
Most of these are mp3 audios. Good stuff. Check out the classes. I think you’ll enjoy them.
http://theoldadam.wordpress.com/category/pastor-mark-anderson/
Thanks.