Life In Prison?
Jordan Brown was 11 years old when he allegedly used his kid-sized shotgun to kill his stepmother, who was pregnant when she died, at their home outside of Pittsburgh. He’s now 13 and unless his lawyers can convince the judges otherwise, he’s set to be tried as an adult.
The Supreme Court abolished the death penalty for offenders under 18 in 2005 and in May 2010 it ruled that children can only be sentenced to life without parole in cases of homicide. In Jordan’s case he’s charged with two counts of homicide and if convicted, he could go to jail forever.
Think Jordan is an extremely rare case? Think again. There are currently 2400 people in the United States facing life imprisonment for crimes they committed as children.
I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this story since I read it a few days ago. I don’t know what I think about it so I thought I would turn to the collective wisdom of this blog.
What do you think? Should a child face life in prison for a crime they’ve committed?
Rehabilitation should be the priority w/ kiddos like this! Terribly sad, but we shouldn’t just throw them away. There should be a separate prison for these kids & a strategic rehabilitation program should be implemented! I’m no expert, just my initial thoughts! very, very sad though.
I agree with Chris. Juvenile prison is no better (and perhaps in some cases worse) than adult prison. These kids need rehabilitation and therapy and lots and lots of prayer.
I think they probably needed prayer, & therapy before they acted in the manner in which they acted. That’s the thing as a society we ignore problems, we have parents that are selfish, we have churches that are selfish and self serving and we throw children away that is usually why they act out in these types and other types of ways. Are we to blame yes and no. Everyone must take responsibility for the choices they make. This is why as Christians we need to be proactive not reactive. This child like the other 2400 are facing the consequences of their choices. Is it wrong, is it right? We will all face the consequences of our choices in life. Can we still pray for this child absolutely and hopefully there are prison ministries that will reach out to him but do we take away the consequences? I don’t think so.
I feel the same way as Tabitha. I’m tempted to say, “Oh no, these children should not be put in jail.” But if we really think about this more carefully, the damage was done long before the child put a gun to his mother’s head. Unfortunately, in this life there’ll always be consequences. Nevertheless, one thing I’m going to add is that each one of these cases is different and needs a specific approach. Not all of these children acted out of the same reasons, each child needs to be assessed differently. Some children (of the same age with others) think more maturely, and some think more childishly. How do we segregate maturity?
It’s a tough call. I still struggle with the death penalty for adults, especially after reading Grisham’s The Confession. Surely we could find a way to rehab kids. Wow. This is a truly tough question and an answer is very hard.
I would like to think a 13-year-old could be rehabilitated. I don’t think he should be walking the streets for a long time, but if put in the proper hands, I would think this kid could still have a life ahead of him. This is just sad.
As a pro-lifer who is against capital punishment (that seems to be a rarity), I like to think that everyone should have the opportunity to rehabilitated and redeemed. When we kick someone to the curb or send them to death row, we’re basically saying that person is beyond the reach of God’s redemption. There are some nasty people out there, but I don’t think anyone is beyond God’s redemption.
I know..it just feels like we’re giving up on them doesn’t it.
I have been a pro-lifer against capital punishment since I took a social issues class in high school and had to write persuasive papers about such issues. It is so wonderful to see others with the same viewpoints. You’re right, it does seem to be a rarity. Anyway, I agree that everyone should have the opportunity for redemption (it says as much in the Bible, right?). However, that does not mean those opportunities can’t come from behind bars. I especially think a child deserves a second chance though & from somewhere other than prison.
This story breaks my heart – and the fact that 2400 people are still being punished for crimes they committed as children? Wow. I understand the need for a justice system in our society, but I think we are greatly missing opportunitites for rehibiliation. What happend to Grace?
I agree that life may be a bit of a harsh sentene for him at 13. But on the other hand, if he were tried as a juvenile, his record would most likely be sealed and ignored after age 18. Not sure that’s the proper course too. This is not a black and white area. I’m not exactly sure what I think yet…
Confusing isn’t it Jeff.
NO! Children should not be punished like adults. That boy’s brain is not capable of understanding the consequences of his actions. He could not buy that gun. Adults were more than likely responsible for what happened. He should be in a mental health care facility if he needs to be. But not prison. What bothers me the most is thinking about children who are abused and then kill a parent. Adults have the freedom to walk away from a situation like that, but children do not. If a child doesn’t have a way out of a situation but does have access to a gun something could happen. When you are a child, it seems like it will be forever until you are 18 and can get away.
Like Robert, I am also pro-life and against capital punishment. I also believe children should NEVER be tried a adults. It doesn’t even make sense to me. Just because they want the punishment to be more severe? Doing something horrible does not suddenly transform a child into an adult.
“That boy’s brain is not capable of understanding the consequences of his actions.”
Whether or not he is or isn’t he KILLED his family – he should have to deal with the consequences. You can’t allow folks off that easy just because his brain isn’t right.
What if a 40 year old, with the brain of 14 year old killed your family? Would it be the same argument?
He will deal with the consequences of what he has done whether or not he stays in prison forever. I know that an 11 year old knows the difference between right and wrong, but his brain literally did not have the ability to reason like an adult when he made his decision. He still used the part of his brain that acts on impulse; people don’t start using the other part until they are in their 20′s.
If a developmentally delayed 40-year-old killed my family, I would not believe that a prison is where he belongs. He would be disabled. Putting a child in jail forever is not going to bring my family back.
When I was 9, I picked up a duck egg and dropped in on the ground. I don’t know why. I knew the concept of eggs and that something was inside, but I had never seen one hatch and I didn’t know how easily they broke. I was devastated when I saw a little baby duck slide out as the egg broke open. I had only seen eggs from the fridge with a yolk come out; I didn’t know that this would happen. And like I said, I didn’t even really think when I did it. I have felt guilty and ashamed about this my entire life. But you know what, I don’t go around picking up duck eggs and dropping them. I’ve never done anything like that again. When I dropped the egg, I wasn’t thinking that it was wrong. I don’t know what I was thinking. I wasn’t thinking hmmm I think I’ll kill an unborn duck. I loved animals. But when I saw the consequence, I knew what I had done. I know two people who set fire to their houses as children; deliberately, with people in the houses, but without knowledge of the consequences. These people both grew up to be normal; one is a stay-at-home mom, and the other is a firefighter. But nobody died so these children didn’t go to jail. But what if someone had died? It could have happened.
I can only imagine what it must be like for a child who wonders if he can really shoot someone; if it can really work. There is a reason children cannot buy guns. They are not capable of the same thought process as an adult. I’m not questioning whether the child should receive a punishment. I am just saying that I don’t understand the concept of “trying a child as an adult” when clearly he is not an adult. He couldn’t go to college or even high school, he couldn’t have a driver’s license or a job or even give himself permission to go on a field trip. How can we hold him to the same standards as an adult just because he did something so terrible? It doesn’t make him anymore grown up. It’s just that what he has done is so upsetting. Obviously, he needs help. And he will be punished for life. He has to live with this. But he’s still a child, so shouldn’t he be tried as one? That is what he IS. A CHILD.
Total grey area. While I hurt for him, he did DO what he DID. He killed two innocent people and he should pay for his wrong doings. Life – ehhh I don’t think so.. but as someone said below, at the age of 18 all of his documents would be “cleaned up” and he would be fine to go about life without a prior record.
I hurt for him, I do – I just don’t know what to do for him or about the rules.
To argue this child didn’t know what he was doing is silly. He knows the difference between right and wrong. He should be punished, no question. But for life? That may make him worse off than he is today. I would give him significant jail time… he took two lives. Let’s think about the victims in this. But with some major counseling and even Godly influences. No one is beyond redemption.
I definitely agree that he knew what he was doing. I think that the boy knew what he was doing was wrong, but what I think he didn’t understand was that there would be significant consequences for what he did. Even adults have trouble with that concept of thinking about consequences before action. I agree that he should have a punishment, but I don’t necessarily think it should be life in prison. He needs to know the severity of what he did and he will never know if he does not receive punishment.
Very sad though, very sad….
Agreed. A child must except personal responsibility just like anyone else. And he should suffer the consequences of his actions. But life in prison may create an even bigger monster. Hopefully, a Christian prison ministry will reach out to him while he is serving his time in jail.
Rehab. We need to rehab children like this. Jail makes them worse off.
Especially for crimes that aren’t as serious as murder.
We take a messed up kid and throw him in a gladiator pit full of messed up kids and incubate life long criminals.
I don’t know what the answer is but holistically jail does nothing but make the ‘good’ people feel like justice was done.
I agree with Vince.
What concerns me is it seems no one is asking what led him to feel the need to do something so awful in the first place? I’m not saying it justifies his actions but we also don’t know the whole story.
Personally, I really struggle with prosecuting children as adults. Even when they hit 18. I’ve read studies that an 18 yr old’s brain doesn’t fully process the consequences of his actions until 25. 25?? Wow.
It seems more often than not, their crimes are the result of a really stupid decision [e.g, drinking at a party, then driving & wiping out a family] that they pay for for the rest of their lives.
I don’t know what the right answer is. I’m also not saying there shouldn’t be consequences. It just seems that there has to be a better way.
Tough question with no clear cut, absolute answer (in my opinion). Some things need to be looked at on a case by case basis. This appears to be one of them.
Sad, to think a child will be tried as an adult when their brains are not developed enough to understand the severity of their actions. I understand that these children are troubled but to throw them away without hope or chance is ludicrous.
Vicky,
I agree.
The discussion here is a sad one that we have to have. As a Christian and an optimist I firmly believe that anyone (despite age) can be rehabilitated and restored. If we hope that victims can get past atrocities that happened against them, then I think we need to believe that criminals can rise above their crimes too. With that said, this boy even if given just a short term sentence will more than likely be sent down a path that will never promote restoration. But on the other hand, he did commit a heinous crime. I err on the side of rehabilitation because he is so young and I believe that a 13 year old wasn’t acting completely on his own agency when he murdered his step mom. I just hope and pray that whatever the courts decide that there is someone in his life who will work hard to let him know he has a second chance regardless of the circumstances.
There’s nothing an 11 year old kid could do that could ever make me think of life in prison is a positive outcome
i mean ‘as’ a positive outcome
This is an issue where emotions can run high, but emotions might not best serve the issue. Romans 13:1-7 makes it pretty clear that our concern should be for the victim, not the perpetrator.
There’s a difference between a Christian response and ‘the state’. The state wields the sword–that’s its God-given job–to protect the innocent and punish evil-doers. As Christians we pray for those in prison and hope they come into a redemptive relationship with God, even if that means they serve God for life in prison or face the death penalty.
Choices have consequences. God offers us redemption for our souls, but not always a free pass on the consequences of our actions, whether we really knew what we were doing or not. The burden must always be on the victims, because they are the ones who suffer the most dealing with the mess of someone else’s choices.
Great post!
Thank you, Sally. Saying something along those lines can be a like throwing a lit match into a can of gasoline, even (maybe especially) in a group of compassionate, caring Christians. Thank you for reminding us that there is a difference between our personal and state responses to crime. It is incredibly difficult to fully hold both mercy and justice in our hands at the same time. That’s why as individuals we should hold mercy, and the state should hold justice.
To be quite honest, I’m not sure where I come down on this issue. I’m the son of a 30 year cop so I understand & believe that punishments should fit the crime. But, at the same time, I’m a pastor who is extremely grateful for, & preaches, the fact that I don’t have to face the punishment for ‘crimes’ I’ve committed against God.
So, that being said I think I’m leaning towards the life in prison side of this fence, as much as it pains me to say that about a 13-year-old child. The fact that he’ll be in prison does not mean that he won’t be able to receive any rehabilitation or hear about the grace of Christ. There are more prison ministries out there than I can count that are doing great things for Christ among prisoners. I’ve actually got a friend who was saved in prison through prison ministries.
**As a side note, I think it’s interesting that he is being tried for a double homicide when abortion & euthanasia are considered the legal taking of someone’s life. But that’s another discussion for another time I think.**
Very interesting.
Okay, you really got me going here today! This wasn’t his step-mother it was his father’s girlfriend. Does that matter? Does it not matter?
A family member witnessed this “little innocent” boy being extremely jealous of the girlfriend and the fact that she was having a son that would be named Chris, after the father. Does this matter? Does it not matter?
What if this boy were 18 years old with a stolen gun? What if this were 20 year old boy with a legally purchased gun, oh! with a history of Schizophrenia? What if he were 23 year old black guy in a gang and this were his initation into the gang? Would it matter? Would it not matter?
Grey/Gray? However you want to spell it this is what is wrong with our society. It’s what’s wrong with us all of us if we are really honest! We all live in what’s called grey. Even in this…He is an 11 year old boy but if he were the gang member we would feel differently about it. Do we throw adults away, homeless people away? Is that okay but the prior not okay? Who do we think we are? It’s okay for you but not me? It’s okay for me but not you?
Revelation 3:15-17 (Amplified Bible)
15I know your [record of] works and what you are doing; you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot!
16So, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth!
17For you say, I am rich; I have prospered and grown wealthy, and I am in need of nothing; and you do not realize and understand that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked
Genesis 4 Cain killed Able, did Cain go into Rehab? (NO)
Did Cain face the consquences of his “bad” decision, that God had for him? (Yes) And by the way it was a bad decision but let’s not trivialize what it really was SIN.
Did God show grace and mercy to Cain in the midst of his consequences? (absolutely)
Matthew 5:45
Romans 9:18
Romans 13:1
We have a judicial system in place, is it perfect? (NO)
We do however, submit to the authorities that have been put into place.
Romans 13:5-7
James 1:13
James 1:14-15
This little boy was not innocent. Just like the 2 year old that throws his or her fit to get what they want is not innocent! This boy has a chance to be rehabilitated the case is not closed as of yet. More than rehab or even jail for that matter this boys needs JESUS! If Christ is received and grace is given in a jail cell who are we to judge that?
Thank God I am not a judge in our judicial system however; we need to pray for those judges and the system and then trust God.
God can reach this boy even if it is in a cold, lonely jail cell.
I’m sure there are some prisoners with great testimony of how jail was their salvation because jail is why they are alive and how they came face to face with Jesus!
I wouldn’t feel differently about it if he were a gang member.
I think where children are concerned it needs to be case by case. I am not in favor of the death penalty for children. I am not against the death penalty for adults. There is a rise in the number of people being diagnosed with psychopathy…an abnormal lack of empathy combined with amoral conduct. News reports say this boy has not shown any remorse nor expressed anything along the lines of saying he didn’t realize she would actually die, which is what you sometimes hear with a kid who is confusing fantasy with reality. I don’t know any 10 year old boys who do not know that killing someone is wrong and this was apparently not an accident. There is no mention of abuse, only that he was jealous of the attention his future step mom was getting. We of course never know what goes on behind closed doors and how he was processing all the changes in his young life. Boys this age are fragile…is his natural mother around? I’ve never heard.
Whatever is behind it all the fact is two people are dead. It is tragic all the way round but if he is psychopathic and not just a kid with emotional issues who is also caught up in fantasy vs. reality, then releasing him with a sealed record at 18 may not be in the best interests of society. I would like to see him get help in a secure facility as opposed to prison but again, a true psychopath is adept at appearing normal so its a hard call. It is heartbreaking and there are many shades of gray.
My parents took in foster kids for a good majority of my growing up years. We, on occasion, would get a child so out of it…that you would wonder if they would ever be able to function in the world without harming others. One such boy actually did end up killing his adoptive mother.
And, of course, we bring God into the sentencing. I too believe that God can redeem any situation or person, but the law does not think about God’s redemption or will when they come up with terms and conditions, charges or pleas. Is a judge really thinking about God when he hands down judgment? They are going to look at the facts: He killed his step-mom, she was pregnant. Period.
Sending juveniles to prison, facing adult sentences is not right, but what do you do with them? It is not as if our prison system…for juvenile offenders facing juvenile terms or adult offenders facing adult terms is actually doing much rehabilitation. Do we give this child the option of a juvenile life sentence so that in a few years he is out? What if he has not received the help he needs…will he do it again?
Just like a number of kids I personally worked with and grew up with in the foster care system, these types of children become throw-away kids. Those trying to help and rehabiliate can only do so much on limited funding and overcrowded systems.
Unfortunately, there is a good chance this will end up being another kid growing up in the system, unable to survive without it because there is no options for the gray areas. God can redeem the sentence, redeem the act, He can step in and show love and grace, reconciliation and rehabiliation, but where is the church acting as his arms and legs and love? We expect the government and social service agencies to fill in these gaps…where is the church?
{stepping down off my little box now…I probably should just put it away}
Without even thinking about it, my first thought went to the song by J.J. Heller “What Love Really Means”.
My first thought is…I don’t know enough about this to even remotely be commenting on this! But you asked, so here I go…
I believe that God is the great Redeemer, and can make all things new. That being said- I think that we, as humans cannot. There are some things that can be inflicted on children that can warp them in such a way as to change them for life.
While an eleven year old should not spend his life in prison- I do not believe that someone capable of picking up a shotgun and murdering someone point blank should be released. There is obiviously something “off” there.
And I’m sorry- but an 11 year old *knows* that a shotgun will kill. My SIX year old KNOWS that. And if an 11 year does not know that, well…then it reinforces the arguement that something is off- now doesn’t it?
I think we somehow forget that there is a price that has to be paid (in our society) versus the price that WAS paid ultimately by Jesus. For example- if I were to commit adultery- I can be forgiven of that- yes. Because Jesus paid the cost of my sin. But there is a cost HERE on earth too..my marriage will suffer just from the pain of it, even if my husband forgives me,etc.
Does that make sense???
Sure does.
Looking back on my own mistakes I made as a 10, 11, or 12 year old, I can’t imagine having to pay for them the rest of my life. I never killed anyone, and I do think that a person, no matter the age, should pay for their crimes. But at that young of an age you might know the difference between right and wrong but there is no way you are looking at your choices through a long term prospective.
Kids don’t have the maturity to know how what they are doing will affect them long term. We can’t ask them to pay a long term price.
A life sentence for a 13 year old is giving that child no chance to change or learn.
For the past six plus years I have been involved with some very broken people. I have heard stories that wreck me, and I have stood in the midst of incredible pain. There are few things I have become convinced of.
1) God is capable of incredible and amazing change
2) We don’t believe him enough
3) Every single life, no matter how broken or messed up is worth everything to God, and should be to us
4) Most of us look at the outward signs and symptoms, but the Lord looks at the heart and knows that is what needs to change
5) The only answer is Christ
What do I think? I think the question is … Does Christ believe a child should face life in prison for a crime they’ve committed? and Does my answer to that last question change anything for me and how I need to live my life?
It is extremely wrong.
I’ve been in Juvenile Detention Centers (Jail) doing ministry with a team of other people my age (14, 15 years old). We went to present the gospel through dance, drama, and media (a whole show with a script and all)…
One of these times, before the show started, we could peak out of the curtains we had up for the show… We all watched as the inmates started to walk in. We were in Virginia Beach at a maximum security and had about 80 to a 100 inmates come in that night (which a lot of the time is unheard of)… Anyways, when we started peaking through, we all were so struck by the ages of the teens. There were guys as old at 18, huge with big muscles and like 7 foot, sitting next to 8 or 9 year old kids.
We all were extremely upset by this. It was one of the toughest nights of my life.
I heard a story, though, which is why I am telling this story… One of the boys in the crowd (was on the first row, and was the first person to stand up in the end to accept them Lord, which encouraged 60 more to stand up)… had a really sad story —
He was 9 years old, and was placed in prison a year ago because he killed his parents by setting the house on fire because they were physically and sexually abusing him, and he just couldn’t take it anymore and burned it down… (he was I believe 7 when he did that)…
Now what kid who hasn’t been abused would be able to come up with something like that? This kid you’re talking about must have really been abused and hurt. That is where the Church should step in and say, “we can take it from here, give us a chance, and we’ll help restore this kid.”
you understand… I relate to your testimony. I totally agree.
This is tough – however, at the age he is at, I would say he is of a consensual age to know there are consequences to his actions (any actions – good and bad). Do I believe he should pay a price with his whole life? No…however, I do believe he needs to live out the consequences of his actions and therefore embrace *some* time in prison.
Truth hurts (really, really hurts) – and I sincerely believe that when a child is of an age to understand the true differences between right and wrong, and the consequences thereof, that child is of age to embrace the consequences of all of their actions (just as an adult is). I do believe counseling is in definite order, and should be instated immediately upon sentencing – because discipline requires a consequence, as well as training through the consequence so there is understanding as to help the child come to a healing place in their lives through whatever brought them to that moment to make such a negative decision.
But again, I am not for a life sentence for a child – but a there is a consequence to his very aware actions, it needs to be embraced, and there is a whole lot of counseling that needs to happen.
An eleven year old boy is a child. He has committed a horrible crime, but he is a child. He was not a teen; he was a child. He is a child who obviously was not protected from his own poor choices. By the time his brain is fully developed, he could be left with little hope for his future. This is WRONG.
Ok…I keep hearing that an eleven year old cannot fully understand his actions? Do you have children? I have four ages 23-11 and at that age mine knew exactly what they were doing and just sneaky enough to try and get away with it. This was a premeditated act of murder and he even took the time to dispose of the shell casing. I think life in prison is the only choice. He isn’t being left behind or pushed to the curb. He is being punished for the crime he committed. No wonder our land is so polluted when we forget how God looks at murder and the consequences. He is still the same God. If this young man is meant to become a part of the family of God, our Lord is big enough to reach him there and use him there. Can’t we just trust that God is sovereign?
Deuteronomy 19 11-13
11But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities:
12Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die.
13Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.
We do not sentence Man nor Child to hell, we simply turn their soul over to GOD to judge. This child murdered a woman with child. It is our duty to send his soul to God. It is the law of our God and it is right. Life in prison is a grace. At 11 I was riding dirt bikes, having dreams about girls, and knew right from wrong. So did this young man.
Like many others, I agree with Chris. Try rehab first, especially in cases when the child is so young. 11 at the time of the murder, I would hate to be punished for life for the things I did as an 11 year old. I think there is a big difference of his understanding of the world and some one who is 16 or 17, who at least according to law would be under the same stipluations.
Besides, where do you put an 13 who goes to jail for life? Does he start in juvy and then move up when he turns 18? What a sad form of graduation.
yep…that’s how they move up.
I am an exconvict. I was busted at age 26 and sentenced to ten. I had been arrested twice as a juvenile, and they basically yelled at me and said “if you ever do this again.”
As a result of my arrest I read a book in a jail cell that introduced me to the gospel of our Lord; so getting busted was the second-best thing that ever happened to me.
I work primarily with teens, speak at 5-7 youth camps each summer for the past 30 plus years…and do a lot of jail/prison work also.
I firmly believe if you are old enough to do the crime, you are old enough to do the time.
I don’t like that. But the dead don’t really care if they were dusted by a 12 year old or a 70 year old.
But, then again, I’d like to see the death penalty applied on drunk drivers on the second offense…
Thank you for your insight. I think you have the right to speak more on this topic than anyone. God bless you for all your doing!
As a person who works in the juvenile justice system, you have to individually assess each kid and the circumstances surrounding the incident AND THE RECIDIVISM RATES in those crcumstances.
I have dealt with TONS of kids over the last 6 years and some of them knowledgeably committed crimes that they were not remorseful for AT ALL. Others committed crimes that they wished they could take back. Some had mental illnesses, some did not. Some committed status offenses, some committed crimes such as assault and sexual abuse/rape. Most of those kids are “regulars” and their crimes tend to increase with their age. It goes from “unruly” charges to drug use to assault to blah blah blah…
We do everything to stop it, but for some kids…the damage is done. People can’t fix it…only that kid can and that kid can’t see ANY OTHER WAY than the way they are going. They know NOTHING else.
I am sure that the lawyers and judge will assess the child psychologically, consider the level of guilt/remorse/empathy, and look at all of the “treatment” options they have available for kids. They won’t just throw him in prison and make him sit in a cell until he commits suicide or dies one day. They will put him through therapy and try to rehabilitate him, etc…IN PRISON.
The fact that the boy is legally eligible to be tried as an adult states that he KNEW the consequences to his actions when he loaded that gun, aimed it, and pulled the trigger.
Even if he gets life, they will more than likely give him the ability for parole. They don’t HAVE to, but they probably will. This way they can re-assess him in future years to see if he could POSSIBLY live in society.
However, if they give him anything less than life and he still isn’t sorry for what he did AND he has done YEARSSSS in the system…they HAVE to let him go free when his time is complete…and then there is a HARD criminal on the street.
If it was your family member, what would you want the system to do?
To the people who think the church can fix a kid like this, I disagree. GOD can fix a kid like this, but the church is not educated, practiced, or organized to deal with these kids. The system that spends ALL OF THEIR TIME focusing on these types of kids can’t fix them. God is available to these kids in prison, rehab, treatment, etc… Just because a kid is in prison doesn’t mean that he/she isn’t being ministered to in an effective manner. The church tends to want to extend grace, turn the other cheek, and “love” this kid into being “normal” because they feel sorry for what he may have experienced in his past that led him to commit this crime. The fact is, that doesn’t work. The crime was a choice…and it was the wrong choice. He needs to pay for that choice…and since he took a life…he should have to give up all of his hopes and dreams.
The bottom line is that historically, children who commit heinous crimes are often not able to be rehabilitated and therefore recidivism rates are HIGH HIGH. The chances of this kid living a “normal” life, even after TONS of therapy, are slim to nothing.
My personal opinion is that, if convicted and sentenced to life WITHOUT parole, he should do time until he is an adult and at that point he should be able to choose the death penalty at a certain age instead of staying in prison forever.
I know most Christians disagree with the death penalty, but I can tell you….if I were told that I had to spend the rest of my life in a cell with murderers and rapists, I would want to choose a humane way out.
I don’t think life in prison is too much for some kids. Like I said…with some, the damage is done and the majority will NEVER have the ability to life a “normal” life. I trust the courts to assess this individual top to bottom and choose what is best for him.
It’s interesting to me that the people (like you) that actually work with people in prison are saying the kids should pay the price and that God can be found in prison. I think I’ll take you guys word for it
The reality is that there is consequences to sin. Look at David and Bathsheba. But God can restore. This child took two lives and he will pay the price. That doesn’t mean God can’t save His soul.
Thanks for your thoughtful response Vanessa.
It’s not good to be him, but it is worse (as far as life on earth is concerned) to be the step-mother and child she was carrying when he committed his crime.
Should he spend the rest of his life in prison? Yes!
Why? See crime committed.
Can he be rehabilitated? Maybe, that has yet to be seen.
Is this throwing him away? No. He still has a chance at finding God, education, love, friendships, grace, mercy, experiencing sunsets and sunrises. He can still draw breath which is more than his victims.
Hypothetical: He spends the next 30-40(maybe 80)years in prison, early in that time he finds God. He uses his life story and circumstance to change the hearts and minds of the thousands that he encounters reaching more lost people for Christ in a year than most preachers do in their whole life.
Is that a waste? Did/does his life in prison change his mission for God? Are we putting God in a box when it comes to life circumstances? Do you think God is like “Oh ME! I didn’t see this coming? (I know you all better than that. I’m just being over the top.)
What might seem unfair to us is His answer for a future need.
A kid who spent his life in prison will hardly learn who God truly is. How can he understand Love when none was shown to him?
Yes, the crime was committed, but c’mon, 30-40 years in prison? If anything, he’d probably be a bitter 50-year-old blaming the world for letting this happen to him – and he will be right!
I’m blown away by that Zee.
Paul was in prison and turned a multitude of his guards to Christ, reached untold numbers of people from his cell. Paul experienced love both from within and without prison. Paul would have and did tell people it was not about where he was but who God is. Granted this kid isn’t Paul, but he might be as great as him one day. Your statements seem to limit God to the will of man, not give opportunity for any circumstance to become the will of God. I’ll admit that it doesn’t seem likely that this kid has a good thing ahead of him but I don’t think we need to discount what God can do.
The understanding of love doesn’t have to come from human example. Love comes from God. God is love. He can turn the heart of hardest without any help from you or me.
I don’t know you but you seem wonderful and caring from your blog, so please don’t take my debate wrongly. My personal opinion on the Child is that this is heart breaking. I too care about what will become of him, but I know that God is way bigger than prison. I think (my opinion only – worth nothing) you are looking at this pessimistically. Can’t we dream of God using the worst to become the best no matter their situation?
Reading this blog I felt very sad … and very angry. Not at the child, even though what he did is gruesome. But at the adults that made him this way and let it come this far.
Who triggered so much anger in him? Who bough that gun? Who didn’t provide medical or psychological help for him if he was already troubled?
I teach kids with behavioral problems. No kids gets that way all by himself. Even when there is a mental issue or a health issue, the environment in which a child grows up is crucial.
This kid doesn’t need a life in prison, even though he needs to be punished in some way. He needs rehabilitation therapy. He needs help more than anything. He needs people who teach him the severity of what he did but also teach him ways to live again as a normal child (or at least as normal as possible).
Most of all he needs people who put their arm around him and show him love.He is a CHILD, for crying out loud!
you understand… yes, he is a child. I am overwhelmed and amazed at the coldness of so many people who have commented on this blog. It is sadder to me than the fact that a young boy was pushed to the point of murdering a pregnant women.
I have yet to read one comment that questions the lack of consequences for the adults in his life. What really needs to happen is his life testimony history needs to be unfolded through serious real psychotherapy. There is a cause… it needs to be determined.
Neuro-biological psycho-therapy has grown be leaps and bound in the last 10 years, especially due to MRI pictures of seeing that the brain is placid (it can regenerate, create new pathways, restore) etc. Much of this work was developed in the area of attachment which occurs in baby and toddler years when a child is not properly nurtured and loved to develop his brain properly. BUT the NEWS is brain therapy CAN BE DONE!
Yes, he should be contained to protect himself and others. Yes, he needs to learn to face the responsibility. But yes, he can get help. It is not magic… It is a lot of hard work, and he has to get to a point that he will do the hard work… it can’t be forced on him…Just as Jesus can’t be forced on a person, the must choose Him. This boy will have to choose to be helped and healed.
God is crying, so should we.
This is a case where we pray His TRUTH overwhelms all facts. Whether this male child spends his life incarcerated or on the outside, he can be free and know his Deliverer the same as you and I can. If we were to pray for this child to know Jesus, hunger for Him, love Him and give his life to serve Him…what a ministry it could be. Even as we bear out the consequences of our mistakes, God’s grace is sufficient and His plans are not thwarted.
Of course this isn’t an easy black and white situation! Maybe it isn’t our responsibility to make sense of it. Maybe we are called to pray for the lost, preach the gospel and let God decide what is good or right for the child.
This moves my heart with intensity…I don’t care what he has done…God wants his name written in the Book of Life. It’s all we should want also.
What makes me wonder… why on earth was there a kid-sized [real] gun accessible to a kid??? I wrote about my aversion to guns recently and to be honest, I don’t get all that “well, we go huntin’ with my kids” – FINE, go hunt, but keep the guns away from kids in non-hunting time!
Anyway, I am off track. I think there should be rehab thing for kids – they still have the ability to change (even though it might take a long time)… Prison time won’t do anything – to be honest, I’d rather be put to death than spend the entire life waiting to die in prison.
Def not a black and white issue. Very tough on both sides. How would I feel my friends’ 11 yo son did that to them? To be honest, I don’t know how I would respond.
Me either Dustin.
That’s a really tough one. The comprehension level of an 11 year old is just on the cusp of knowing exactly what’s going on. I know from personal experience with my dad’s death when I was 11. Around 12, and definitely 13 is when I really KNEW that was it. I think it would depend on a psychological evaluation of the boy. That might determine the impact of life in prison or counseling till the age of 18.
Gostei do seu blog, gostaria se possível de ter alguns conselhos sobre com aumentar a popularidade do meu blog.
Rehabilitation has nothing to go with this. This is an issue of doing what is just for the mother and baby. Justice dictates a harsh penalty for homicide. Also, I would argue if this boy shows sociopathic tendencies at a such a young age then rehabilitation is not probable.
I still remember Jamie Bulger killing – 2 boys and they were 10 or 11 and they lured a toddler away from his Mum in a shopping mall, took him to the railway line and beat him to death. I’m sorry – but don’t tell me that a kid doesn’t know what they are doing is wrong?
I think if you don’t make children face consequences for what they doing, you are giving a message that it’s ok.
Yes. Rehabilitation, counselling and all that – and every case needs to be looked at individually. I don’t think there’s a blanket answer or response to this.And I definitely think that prevention is better than cure.
No. He was 11 when he did it. No way life is appropriate here.
Let a few child psychologists sit down with him and see if he really knew what he was doing. if he did, then he needs to face the consequences.
I have no answers. This makes my insides hurt.
While everyone at any age needs to be held accountable and responsible for their actions, age must always be highly considered. NO CHILD under the age of accountability should pay an adult sentence to a crime committed. This is the reason for the difference between child and adult laws and punishments, but over and over it is very popular in courts in recent years to ignore the age of the criminal.
Child do as they are raised, as they are taught. Children need attentiveness, love, time with parents, encouragement, to be nurtured… clearly there is a breakdown in families who should be focused on raising their children.
This is the result of years (decades) of the destruction of the home and family. We need to go back to basics. We need to teach parents. Much ministry is needed.
I wonder…. I have recently been reading that there is a strong link between crime and the ability to read. I wonder how was this child doing in school. Was he learning? Could he read? or Was he labeled as one of the mass of disabled? Also, how was his tender years as a child? What did he experience? What did he see or hear?
These are acts of children hurt, hated, ignored, neglected, abused, hopeless. These are children! Jordan is a child. He can be helped. He can be reached. He can be healed.
I really feel for these children… when I was 14, I had suffered enough abuse that I also felt there was no way out. I truly felt living in prison for life would be safer and better than living in an concentration camp style violent “home” … I hurt for children in these situations. Often they have tried everything they know to do… I know I did.
Working with children is what I do. Especially at-risk, abused and neglected children. That was really hard but very realistic to read. A childs brain is not fully developed and can’t really grasp all the concepts of common sense, actions vs. outcome until the age of about 21-25 depending on the child. Personally, If we had an effective rehabilitation center for child offenders,(which we don’t) sentenced until the mid 20′s with an “evaluation” for social integration, thats where I would go with it. I just don’t think we have enough knowledge collectively to know how to deal with these kids so we just throw them to the wolves and be done with it. Very sad and very selfish of us not to make children our first priority.
Let’s dispell the idea ofnot knowing kight from wrong; he waited for his father to go to work, then shot the live-in girlfriend,
Threw the shell casing outside, got on the bus for school later told police lie about a vehicle that was involved. That for having a mature brain, etc. We live in a country governed by laws, that is clear. i worked in the prison system for eight years and rehab is little more than a “buzz” word. He has been in jail for two years already, in some ways prison will be better, average age if inmates is 18-23, I don’t know how he will be received, maybe like adopted. If he is treated as a juvinile, released at 21, do you want him living next door to you.
You can’t forget that GOD says of every child – they are born sinful. You can’t pretend and just want children to be innocent and only affected by bad circumstances. Was this child affected by circumstance, yes. But is he a sinner, yes, even if he hadn’t committed pre-meditated murded, but he did.
We keep saying “we”, but what “we” really mean is society, yet we’re saying it as Chirstians. Well, we’re not a society of Christains anymore. So for us to try to fasten Christian rehabilitation onto these problems is not realistic. And God shows in his word that what a government needs to do about justice is different than what the church is charged to do with the heart. It is our government’s duty to punish and protect citizens. It is the church’s job to offer Jesus to the hearts of men – and children.
As some have said, ideally the offer would be given and received before murder, rape, and mayhem occured.
I don’t know if a child should be held ‘as an adult’ most definately NOT with adults. That would be great trouble.
Children do things out of ignorance or just plain stupidity to hold a ‘child’ in serious confinement for years till they grow up is wrong too. So the question is a good one and not easily answered.
As a physical, mentally, and emotionally, abused child/ then adult YES my poor choices. An adult that has had an abortion. ( sorry my brother and sister )
Now one facing a murder trail in our family this year, i find this one hard. There were times i felt like killing my father did i NO. Yet look at what i did to my own child and i was in my 20, would i do it now NO, should i spend life in prison some may think so. Do i call myself a believer in Jesus YES. Do i find myself praying for this young man who murder my 20 year old bonus niece YES.
Do i feel he should spend life in prison YES . Do i feel some time yes and some times*** i fell numb. Yet i now my father in heaven loves me and he loves this 11 year old boy. HE WILL DO what is best. Striving to be the hand and feet and loving my LORD as he hold me tight grace and peace.