We’re in a series entitled “Religion Lies” right now at Cross Point. Yesterday we looked at the following parable from Jesus in Luke 18….
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10″Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee (religious Leader) and the other a tax collector (scum of the earth). 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
This is a classic look at religion which is all about comparing and condemning.
Everyone creates a list just like this religious leader did. It’s a list of the sins you think are most appalling to God. And do you know what sins you think are most appalling to God? The ones you don’t struggle with, right?
This is what religious institutions have done for centuries. A bunch of power hungry religious leaders get in a room and figure out which group of sins they are least likely to struggle with and then they declare that “list” as the posterboard sins their denomination is going to boycott, picket and vote against.
Anne Lamott says, …
“You can tell you have made God in your image when it turns out He hates all the same people you do.”
Ever struggle with this “list”?
Nope, I don’t struggle with this list at all. I’m just pretty sure that murder and adultry must be the most horrid because I haven’t done those yet.
YIKES!!!!!!
OK, in all seriousness. Love should replace lists.
.-= Melissa Irwin´s last blog ..Hi Y’all =-.
I’ve worshiped in several different kinds of churches through my life and another thing I’ve noticed is that we also have a list of what we think “holy” or “spiritual” looks like. These are things we are SURE Christians would or would not do. I’ve heard freedom preached in all of these denominations yet it always struck me as funny that while we might be “free” of the legalism of others, in the meantime we’ve created our own set of rules!
I think it makes us humans feel a bit more in control to think there is a checklist – of both dos and don’ts. Absolute grace makes us very uncomfortable. The thought that we have NOTHING to bring to the table in our relationship with Christ but ourselves, no goodness at all, is something we struggle with. Who wants to really think THAT? So to make ourselves feel better we adhere to a set of man made rules. It’s actually sort of funny….
.-= Jan Owen´s last blog ..Good – Bye for Now…Why I’m taking a break from social media =-.
I used to struggle with a “list” until a point in my life where I had to face my own sins as destroying my life. Now I have one giant “list” of everything that God calls us not to do and everything on it is equal. I violate it as much as I may think anyone around me might violate it. It’s a constant reminder of why I needed Jesus in my life and they do too.
Of course, you’d be surprised how much a list that has every sin equal in the eyes of God can anger someone as much as the selective list…
.-= Jason´s last blog ..One place where many Christians fail =-.
Here’s my list history:
1. I struggled to get “the list” right.
2. I struggled with the fact that some people I really liked were on “the lists” of my elders/advisors (which meant I was supposed to break fellowship with them.)
3. I struggled to have enough time and energy to keep “the list” current.
4. I struggled to believe that I really was a Christian because I was on “the list” of somebody else. (lots of somebody elses, really)
5. I began to realize that one thing Jesus was attempting to do was destroy the arrogance of “the list-makers.”
6. I began to wonder if God might want me to live without “the list” and if I could.
7. I am trying to be free from the heavy burden of “the list.”
8. But, freedom rarely comes without struggle, and I still struggle with “the list.” Daily.
@ttm, I’m right there with you.
Pete, my Sunday school class looked at that verse yesterday – we’re studying the 7 deadly sins, and our book had us look at pride through those verses…
And, yes, I struggle. It’s okay if I do (fill in the blank), but not if my friend does it… if they do it, then it’s a sin…
Yes. I struggle.
.-= diane´s last blog ..Labor Day Weekend =-.
anne lamott is pricelessly brilliant.
Just wanted to comment and say great message yesterday! I love a service that begins with a talk about the Titans devastating loss ( I was there
that’s why I was at the 6:00 service) incorporates a ref whistle and Yellow flags, and ends with me feeling convicted! I love that you aren’t scared to step on toes and tell it like it is. I feel encouraged to lay down my “Christian police whistle.”
.-= Brittany´s last blog ..No One Puts Baby In the Corner =-.
I can lay down ‘my list’ much easier when I’m comparing something like lying to say, wanting something my neighbor has. They feel more ‘equal’. It’s when I think about something like terrorism or crimes against children that I struggle. When I really think about this it makes me stand in awe of just how big God is.
.-= joyce´s last blog ..Everybody’s working for the weekend =-.
Pete, I’m really looking forward to downloading that podcast and hearing your take on this subject.
One of the main reasons I got done with going to church & believing in God 8 or so years back is because of the perpetual feeling of inadaquecy of beeing unable to live up to ‘the lists’ and always feeling judged.
Eleanor Roosevelt is famed to have said that ‘No one can make you feel inferior without your permission’. I agree with this and try to subscribe to it, but it’s generally much easier to apply this to everyday life in the secular world than it is within an ‘organised religion community’ that has a shared morality and the ‘baggage’ that this entails.
.-= Carolyn´s last blog ..Anjali House – the VIP tour. =-.
I watched a very overweight TV preacher once preach on every single sin of the flesh except for one…gluttony! It’s that blinding PRIDE that keeps us all from seeing the planks in our own eyes. Pride really sucks!
.-= Beth Taylor´s last blog ..Welcome to My Castle…But Watch Your Step =-.
LUV the Anne Lamott quote, Pete. Just tweeted it.
Hmm.. the list I struggle with is a twist different. I get tripped up by the list other people write up about what a Christian life should look like. ‘Cuz I always end up feeling like I fall short.
Then, when I’ve hung my head in discouragement, I see God’s word, right at my feet: “I love you, Bonnie. Just the way you are. Really, I do.”
And I smile and lift my head up again.
Great post. Just like a bite of brownie. Small, sweet, and memorable.
.-= Faith Barista | Bonnie´s last blog ..Feel Like Your Best Days Are Behind You? =-.
Wow, awesome quote by Anne Lamott. So true. Thank you for this.
.-= Trina´s last blog ..Breezy’s Bday (plus more karaoke!) =-.
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LUV the Anne Lamott quote, Pete. Just tweeted it.
Hmm.. the list I struggle with is a twist different. I get tripped up by the list other people write up about what a Christian life should look like. ‘Cuz I always end up feeling like I fall short.
Then, when I’ve hung my head in discouragement, I see God’s word, right at my feet: “I love you, Bonnie. Just the way you are. Really, I do.”
And I smile and lift my head up again.
Great post. Just like a bite of brownie. Small, sweet, and memorable.
.-= Faith Barista | Bonnie´s last blog ..Feel Like Your Best Days Are Behind You? =-.
Can’t wait to hear this one on podcast.
I wonder about all the areas of our lives that this affects:
parenting, marriage, work ethic, our church, the church, family, politics, education, worship styles, community….
wow
.-= Aaron B. Reddin´s last blog ..At Our Church…. =-.
You’re 100% right that lists seem to make certain Christians feel ok. I guess that is why I attend the church I do. We believe in Lives Changed By Christ…Looking out over the congregationn yesterday, I saw some biker clubs in leather, etc.; some Amish/Mennonite; some old; some young;some of everything, including the once self-proclaimed aethiest that came in the door to sit with my husband and I. He was touched and moved by the message and left at least a partially changed man. THIS is why the lists just cannot exist. Jesus wants us to grow His kingdom – not shrink it. I believe a wise man once said, “Do not judge lest ye be judged.”
“What is wrong with the world today?”
……”I am.”
GK Chesterton..and ME!!
Great post today. I know of many who struggle with their list and many who thrive with their list. By thrive, I mean that they think there’s nothing wrong with it. It continues to amaze me that we think God keeps a high/low count of our evil actions, when in His eyes they are all evil apart from Christ.
Until we, as the church, can get away from lists, things will never change. I see this as one of the many things that will choke out small to medium sized churches and the same things that serve as “choke chains” to the growth of those believers who are ready to do what God is calling them to do.
Get over the lists of life. If you struggle with them, I advise you to make a list of the things that God has done and compare it to your list of things that you need to do. Our list will quickly fade into the joy of His list.
Thanks again.
I was taught “the list” my whole life… only in the last few years have I realized just how much I AM THE LIST!
Struggle with? yes. Aware of on a regular basis? Thankfully to a wonderful stream of authentic people I continue to me – I am now aware.
And TTM – that’s a perfect outline!
The older I get, the more I realize that my sins (which are generally the “hidden” sins that you can’t see aka NOT murder, adultery, etc but rather coveting, pride, anger) are the more harder, insiduous sins to conquer. So I am right there with you and can’t wait to hear your podcast.
But I am a bit wary of what you said “boycott, picket and vote against”…I think I get what you mean…but even though I want to reach out in love to EVERYONE, I feel called as a Christian to vote my concscience, speak the truth, and yes, “vote” with my dollars. I don’t do it hatefully, or even “argumentally” but lets be careful that we don’t sway toooo far in the polar opposite of the ones we are trying not to become…
and.. it seems the list we create, that we know we’ll never struggle with, are inevitably sins we end up struggling with.
Does that make sense?
perfect quote with Anne Lamott. Lovin’ it!
.-= Andy McMahon´s last blog ..Technology =-.
The danger in all this talk of living without the list is the thinking that endeavoring to live a righteous life is a lost cause. It seems that everybody is throwing up their hands and deciding that they can live however they want and God will cover it over with His grace. But that’s just not true. Living right is not a lost cause, and God will not just cover over it with His grace. What is true is that God has put in place a plan to free us from sin by His power, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, by faith through grace, without adhering to a list, so that His righteousness will be fulfilled in us (not just declared) by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:4). The apostle Paul discusses that plan in detail in Romans. In order to be free of the list, we have to accept God’s plan in its entirety, not just pick and choose what we want from it.
.-= Keith Prater´s last blog ..Don’t Give God a Bad Name – Romans 2:17-29 =-.
I am enjoying your series on Religion Lies .. I really feel that what you are saying is true . and look fowrd to the weeks to come .. woudl ike for friends at work to see a video of rthe service .. they ar so down on Jesus .. give me a different perspective
Faith Barista Bonnie summed up how I feel lately….
It’s frightening to think that we (collective we, the church, religion) can just pick and choose which sin is more “excusable” or “forgivable”.
.-= *~Michelle~*´s last blog ..Stubborn or Determined…..Hopeless or Hopeful? =-.
Worst lie? When the church – whether intended or not – promotes Divine Retribution. Of course, Jesus wanted to debunk this myth by answering the disciples’ question about the blind man’s misfortune, “whose sin caused this?” But we continue to misinform when we don’t draw clear distinctions between the consequences of sin and retribution. It’s no wonder the Common American Religious Creed (CARC as a pastor friend used to call it) continued to be based on the notion of pan scales – if I’ve done just a little less bad and slightly more good – God will punch my heaven ticket.
“You can tell you have made God in your image when it turns out He hates all the same people you do.” ——————— Maybe it’s just me… but I think that’s a terrible quote… think about it logically, If god is truly everyone’s creator who loves you and wants you to be with him, then how could he HATE some people…. think about it this way, would you really want to spend eternity with a God that hates people who are his creation?…. cmon guys, use your brains, God gave you them for a reason
Okay, but you asked about a list of sins that I think are worse than others…
Someone once offered biblical evidence (what it was I’ve long forgotten) that somehow sins of passion and flesh are somehow deemed by God to be less offensive to him than those that involved premeditated greed or planned, intended evil done to another. Or bloodthirsty violence done to the innocent or helpless. I guess I’d agree although I know all sin is sin equally dark before a holy God. Many church folk get way worked up about homosexuality – that its like the worst of the worst – but isn’t it simply another adulterous relationship? In fact, if I remember right, I think you said this during your QUESTIONS series.
Some point to the proscriptions against tattoos in Leviticus – but we don’t seem to freak out about those anymore at all.
I have to say – I think I’m at a point where I don’t have a list. I think sin is sin. And what may be sin for one person (like Paul writes about eating meat offered to idols) may not be for another. Like tattoos or jewelry or long hair or dancing or drinking in moderation. This sin thing is tricky because we are always looking for black and white – “do this but don’t do that.”
My prayer is to be led by the Spirit and to stop grieving him!
I know this may be a little off topic, but can anyone offer advice on how to deal with a family member who behaves like the Pharisee did in the parable? Because if I hear, “Watching MTV is so worldly” from someone who gossips about her neighbors 24/7 one more time, I’m going to scream.
Pete, I would like to watch the Religion Lies sermons… is there a way to get to them from your church website?
& Jennifer, I can see where that can be frustrating. My advice is just to live out the love of God and hope your example shows her something. Also, if the opportunity presents itself, maybe ask why she thinks MTV is so worldly as opposed to others gossiping, etc. – not using her name specifically, but just to see what she says…
.-= diane´s last blog ..Labor Day Weekend =-.
I tell you Pete, no blog gets me thinking quite like yours does!!!!
.-= Lauren Kelly´s last blog ..Thoughts in the night! =-.
@Rhonda, I’m with you. I certainly think you should vote your conscious. My fear is that in religion we think that’s enough. That somehow “being against” someone is going to change their heart.
I agree Keith. Not sure how you came to that conclusion through this blog post, but I see where you’re coming from.
The reality is when we get rid of our list what we discover is we are all “sinners” in desperate need of the forgiveness and redemption of Jesus Christ.
Getting rid of our list doesn’t get rid of that need. It simply reinforces the fact that we “all” need it and not just a few.
@pete, well said my friend.
Let’s just say for arguments sake that somewhere there is a legitimate list. Let’s also say that I do not have a problem with anything on that list except the item on the bottom of that list aka the least of all sins. The not even worth mentioning sin. The sin that most of us would not even call a sin.
If I am guilty of that sin then there is no hope for me without Christ. I need His blood to wash away that sin just as much as the person who commits the sin on the top of the list.
If Jesus asked, Why do you call me good?
and then answered His own question by saying… There is none good but the Father. Why does anyone feel they have a chance of “being good” unless it is through Christ.
.-= Harold´s last blog ..Isaias Gabriel – Making The Difference in the DR =-.
“To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you.”
C. S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory
I am one that often needs to remind myself of the magnitude of God’s forgiveness, for me….. to see my sin as the ugliness it is instead of comparing it to a “list” of other “worse” offenses.
.-= Torybee´s last blog ..Bee Happy =-.
Just finished listening to this message from Sunday, and aside from your whistle scaring the crap out of me, homerun!!
.-= Aaron B. Reddin´s last blog ..Action = Inaction in Recovery =-.
Sorry, this is going to be a bit long. Brenning Manning said:
“There’s the difference between the real believers and the nominal Christians that are found in our churches across the land. No one can measure like a believer the depth and the intensity of God’s love. But at the same time, no one can measure like a believer the effectiveness of our gloom, pessimism, low self-esteem, self-hatred and despair that block God’s way to us. Do you see why it is so important to lay hold of this basic truth of our faith? Because you’re only going to be as big as your own concept of God.
Do you remember the famous line of the French philosopher, Blaise Pascal? “God made man in his own image, and man returned the compliment”? We often make God in our own image, and He winds up to be as fussy, rude, narrow minded, legalistic, judgemental, unforgiving, unloving as we are.”
.-= katdish´s last blog ..Things that scare the heck outta me (by Billy Coffey) =-.
Jennifer Campbell – that’s a tough one. As a very vocal person, I really struggle with this. There are probably several appropriate responses and really, you need to follow your heart and do what you need to do in the most loving way you know how. Don’t be afraid to call someone’s ACTIONS out in order to be politically correct or to avoid perceived hypocracy.
Do what you feel God is leading you to do – whether to stay silent, turn off the MTV, or to address it head on. Perhaps it’s an opportunity to create dialogue with someone who is trying to figure some things out…
@Katdis, I love that Pascal quote. So true.
If the Pharisee had been paying attention to his own sin, he would have been too busy to even notice that the publican was there.
OR to put it in more modern terms-
If Pearl would just pay attention to her own sins and cooperate with God to get them out of her life then she wouldn’t have time to get all bent out of shape about the sins of the people around her. She would also be more compassionate toward those who are still in bondage to the sins she has been blessed to overcome.
The thing we are so quick to forget is the intense love of God for His creation. If only one of us on the earth throughout time had only sinned one tiny “insignificant” sin, Jesus would still have come and suffered and died for that one. It was MY sin that held Him to the cross. I’m so glad His love is that great.
As far as the “list”? I’ve found that the sins of others that seem to bug me the most are actually the ones that I’m blind to in my own life.
.-= Pearl´s last blog ..What is God Preparing? =-.
@Paula: There have been times I’ve wanted to call on the “Spirit of Slap” when she calls me down for the things I do that may be offensive to her, but refuses to acknowledge that yes, SHE, is a sinner as well. But then again, and I’m trying to word this without sounding harsh or gossipy, she is also one of these that if you calmly, rationally, and in a Biblical way talk to her about her judgement of others and how wrong it is, she’s ready to throw down. I think I, and the rest of my family, have just decided to ignore her because nothing we do is going to change what she’s been doing since she learned to talk. But sometimes she is so loud, so boisterous, and so in-your-face with her snarky comments on other people’s “shortcomings” that you can’t help BUT respond. We all pray for her, though, and I have faith that God will show her the error of her ways in that area and grant us the know-how on what to do should it arise again.
@Pearl: You wrote exactly what I needed to read concerning my situation. I need to remind myself that even though my aunt’s behavior bothers and annoys me, I’m pretty sure I have behavior that bothers and annoys her, too. And instead of getting angry at her (like I have done so many times in the past), I should remember that there are things I have said or done in my past that was not so sweet to look at or hear about, and it didn’t stop the love from being outpoured to me from my family, and from God. I don’t know if it would be a wise move to pray for patience, but that’s what I’m praying for–PATIENCE. In this area and all other areas in my life. Because life isn’t Burger King; it isn’t my way, right away all of the time.
Pete!
i have been racking my brain over this post for days, you reference was Luke 8:9-11, but I think you meant Luke 18:9-11, lol.
The only reason I was obsessing over it is, it is so true. I loved that parable and finally found out where it was.
Oh and the Lamont quote is life changing!
Thank man
.-= Matt Hafer´s last blog ..My Rabbi. =-.