Obvisouly this doctor has never attended any kind of recovery group. I have several ladies in my Celebrate Recovery small group dealing withe aftermath of porn addiction. One lady has lived with this secret for over 40 years in her marriage. I could go on and on…on that soapbox…but as I watched this woman broken last week it touched my heart and I pray that she is able to find God’s Love for her through the process of a Christ-centered 12-step recovery ministry like CR.
Alison´s last blog ..A Beautiful Site to Behold

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all i would say, Pete, is that i wholeheartedly agree with you on this one; that quote reflects some serious naivete/denial on the part of Dr. Kerner.

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David Miller is right. Porn is an addiction. And it’s sad that this doctor is promoting an addiction.

Plus when you look at porn through God’s eyes, you see how cheap and dirty it really is. Kind of like having sex with a prostitute.

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I might disagree with the “pedicure” comment, but I whole-heartedly believe that porn is to “us” what Chick-flicks are to most women.

Both set an unrealistic expectation of a relationship based on fantasy aimed at the way each gender is hardwired.

But I find few people are willing to call out “How to Lose A Guy in 10 Days” or “Say Anything” as “a problem in their home.”
Andy Borgmann´s last blog ..Kentucky Lake Weekender: The End of Work Hard / Play Hard For A While

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I am with you on this and it is unfortunately so prevalent in marriages, in singles – and I’m talking Christian marriages, singles – and it is not mentioned or addressed enough in church. My marriage ended because of physical abuse – and in my naivete, had no idea of the extent of his porn problem until the aftermath that left a steady stream of porn videos, phone numbers, and magazines that was not only appalling but I now understood why our intimacy was so weak, so distant. Porn kills relationship.

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Thank you for posting this. I have an 18 year old nephew who as I speak is standing before a judge to be sentenced for some damage he did to his sister, cousins and girls from his church. He was raised in the church, homeschooled, taught right from wrong … and yet on the internet found some content that led to some horrible, horrible things. His family had a filter on their home computer but a few years ago when he began taking classes at a community college there were no filters. Pray for filters for your childrens hearts and minds!! This is the family you would never dream it would happen to, which makes it all the more real that this isn’t a “spa treatment.” It now has lifelong consequences for so many families.

Thanks again Pete. I wish that guy could sit in the courtroom today with this boys parents … and see the truth. It’s heartbreaking.
Darla Baerg´s last blog ..Dear summer, I miss you already!

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I agree with you Pete, and frankly I am really tired of the “it’s ok” mentality that today’s society has taken towards sin. It’s not ok! The world tries to minimize sin just because it has become common. The people who are actually struggling with the addictions are less likely to try to get help if we keep telling them “it’s ok.”
Brittany´s last blog ..Stealing funny thoughts

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As for the statistics, that’s still 41 and 42 percent of people feeling insecure in their relationship due to porn and it’s still a substantial amount.

Sure. And I am not advocating that for those 41/42 that it isn’t an issue that needs to be dealt with. But let me pose this – as I have on air with the radio show I produce – what do you say to the 59/58 out there that sincerely don’t seem to have a problem with it? If a wife/girlfriend can honestly admit that it doesn’t bother them that their significant other uses porn, then what? What’s the next cliché Christian response we go to?
Andy Borgmann´s last blog ..Kentucky Lake Weekender: The End of Work Hard / Play Hard For A While

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I’m speechless (and that takes a lot). I wonder if that “dork” has ever counseled anyone with a porn addiction or struggled through with a family where there is one. WOW!
bill (cycleguy)´s last blog ..Shortcuts

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Good soapbox Pete. I am sure the opinions will fly on this one and I have to agree it in no way is a “30″ second day spa for guys.
Sounds like he was quite a bit irresponsible on posting this piece.
joseph´s last blog ..The Final Post

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If this(Kerner) was my husband speaking, I’d just go ahead and poke his eyeballs out for him! I think it’s scriptural…sort of. “If your eye offends thee, gouge it out.” I think a wife could be the gouger.

My heart goes out to those addicted and to those that love those who are addicted. This is a serious problem and I for one am thrilled to know that churches are reaching out to these people (men and woman) who have been deceived that it is harmless. I don’t want to see a bunch of Christian men walking around without their eyes…then what do you do with those thoughts embedded in their heads?
sherri´s last blog .."ASK BIG AL" (A Two- Part Series)

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Well…this will probably get me a lot of heated messages but I think you’re wrong about the statement you quoted while being right about the doctor’s conclusion that it’s a harmless distraction.

When I was still dwelling in my addiction to porn, it was like a mini spa day. It was a time where I would push out the stresses of the day. It was a time where I didn’t have to worry about being rejected by my wife in a time of need. It was a time where I could get what I want when I wanted it. It felt good most of the time even if I later felt guilt about it.

I’ve been there, I’ve felt it and the doctor isn’t wrong in that quoted passage.

Christians have to realize the people addicted to pornography start out looking to feel good just as the shopaholic spends money to feel good, the glutton rushes to comfort foods to feel good…take your pick. It’s idolatry, it’s putting something in front of God to be your source of joy but when you’re going through struggles and there’s no support system around you to help something like porn can bring relief and joy…even for a short time…that can help prop you up.

Porn is evil. Porn brings destruction. Porn brings pain. Porn can bring consequences that will last for years and possibly lead to you doing things that will kill you. It’s like a gateway drug in a sense to other sins. There’s no question of that…but we cannot deny the “pleasurable” angles of it just because we realize the true nature of it. Many of the people caught up in it only want the pleasure or relief.

That temptation still haunts me today. It cost me a marriage, it’s part of the reason that I see my sons two and a half days a month. Porn was responsible in part for me losing the chance to see my children growing up every single day. It’s brought me pain every single day when after less than two minutes on the phone I hear “ok Daddy, bye bye.” That’s just with one son. My second son with autism doesn’t even talk on the phone. I can’t even have a conversation with my son outside of 2 days a month. It’s hell.

Yet when I’m feeling overloaded at work, hurt by betrayals of people I trusted or even facing a difficult situation where it seems like God is not there that old nagging temptation comes back because for those 30 seconds you feel joy. False joy, sure…but physically it feels the same. Thankfully God’s shown me that there’s no true joy there so I can tell Satan to shove it.

God’s brought some good out of my poor decisions and my addiction to porn. For example, during that time I was able to come to know many strippers and women involved in the “business” and was able to see the pain and desperation. I was able to see through the facade to see the wounded people who wanted out but felt trapped. I was able to see that my sin…while bringing pain to me and my immediate family…hurt these women I’d never met by feeding the beast that was killing them. I’ve seen darkness I pray that no one else will ever see…knowing full well there are people within the city limits living it right now.

Sorry if I’m preaching here…I’m just a little passionate on the subject. When I was addicted to it, telling me it’s evil and bad and is going to hurt me didn’t offset the good feelings that came out of it. I keep hearing Green Day’s “Know Your Enemy” in my head right now…and if we just demonize porn without acknowledging the reasons people go into it/view it then we’re fighting with one hand behind our backs.
Jason´s last blog ..Pete Wilson & I love strippers. You can too!

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You get on up there on your soapbox, Pete! Couldn’t agree more.
katdish´s last blog ..Beating a bad day in kindergarten (by Billy Coffey)

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I have never heard of a marriage breaking up from 30 second spa retreats…

I have heard of marriages breaking up from porn addiction.

‘Nuff said.

I can’t imagine taking anything that Doctor said seriously after that statement. Sad, really.

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@Karen, email me at pete@crosspoint.tv I look forward to catching up with you!

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There are plenty of women out there who have dealt with this to some level as well – this is not just a guy’s problem… I’ve met plenty of women who admit “among the girls” that they find great pleasure in it.

I never really got into it myself, but I’ll be honest and say that for a long time, I thought that it would be totally harmless for a husband and wife to share in the experience as it would allow for “more fun”. I really never thought too heavily on the subject as I wasn’t really drawn to it – this was just my opinion whenever the topic came up.

Fortunately, I married a great guy who disagreed and the more I researched the issue and paid attention to it, and listened to stories from others damaged, the more I realized I didn’t want to burn myself or my marriage by playing with the matches.

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I totally and 100% agree with you. That statement is completely obsurd!!
Lauren Kelly´s last blog ..My song!

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Thank you for posting this Pete. Wish I could smack Mr.Ian Kerner right now! Jasen and I both have Covenant Eyes on our computers, and we also highly recommend it!
ashley´s last blog ..I’m Sorry

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Porn. Really. If it was assumed women were checking out the bodies of naked men instead of vice versa, would men be so quick to defend it?
Stay on the soap box, Pete. When the icky becomes normal, somebody need to shout “ICKY”!
Helen´s last blog ..I Give You One Word: Lots of Them….

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Wow…his statement made me throw up in my mouth a little….but more than that I am saddened. God intended for all sexual activities and thoughts to be between a Man and his wife….bringing in anything else was not God’s intention. And I agree with Justin, to think this is an a accurate statement means that the person is in denial or hasn’t walked with anyone that has gone through it. I don’t believe there is a “casual porn” environment…once someone is in they are in and hooked. And to compare it to chick flicks…I see the point but think it is a little silly. We (as in woman) might “lust” after something in a chick flick…but it usually isn’t anything to do with the man in the bed or being naked. More to do with seeing a happy ending, maybe a little respect from a man, something along those lines….and I don’t think lusting after happy endings or respect is so bad.
Sarah B´s last blog ..Still Processing….

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“Sex cannot pay spiritual dividends if its currency is shrouded in unfounded and illegitimate guilt. Gratitude to God for this amazing experience is essential; otherwise, the powerful feelings associated with sex will lead us to focus on self.”

-From the Gary Thomas book “Sacred Marriage”

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Colossians 3:5 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires.

What do you do with the fact that Ruth seduced Boaz and was not only “praised” for it, but put in the lineage of Christ?

Or how the entire book of Song of Solomon is about Solomon’s girlfriend (it doesn’t even mention the loose commitment of being a concubine) out in the country side?

Again, not defending the porn statement, but proof-texting single passages out of the Bible in attempts to simplify the discussion while ignoring whole narratives of others doesn’t particularly make anything simpler.
Andy Borgmann´s last blog ..Kentucky Lake Weekender: The End of Work Hard / Play Hard For A While

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Like so many others have said porn is destructive and addictive. Spas don’t destroy families, spas don’t bring that much damage to their users… that guy is off!! Maybe he’s off because he’s gets his daily dose of “spa treatment” (just me thinking out loud…pray for me).
Michael Holmes´s last blog ..SO YOUR MINISTRY DOESN’T NEED SOCIAL MEDIA, EH?

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my old roommate of five years was a woman who struggled with a porn addiction, as well as same sex attraction, she went to counseling, did the hard work and knew not to tempt herself. and now God is really blessing her with ministry oppourtunities and support.

we did not get internet until like the fourth year we were roommates because she was not ready for the temptation to be there, when we did get the internet she got covenent eyes I think it is a great was to have accountability, and subsequently was an accountability for myself.
for christmas one year I got a couple of matt damon things like a script from one of his movies ect… and one of the people that got her sites from covenant just ‘checked in’ with her about all the matt damon things…to make sure she was doing ok

there is definantly a world of women out there who struggle with this as well. and it is NOT easy.

i think it is SO important as followers of christ to live our lives open, that the church should ooze honesty… honest about the HARD things. pornography, depression, anxiety, anger, money problems, ect…satan can’t have power if we don’t hide things!!!

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I am not able to make a blanket statement that porn is healthy for a relationship, nor am I able to make a blanket statement that porn is unhealthy for a relationship.

My heart goes out to those people whose marriages and lives have been destroyed by pornography addiction. But, marriages have also been destroyed by romance novel addiction, shopping addiction, computer addiction, work addiction and golf addiciton and food addiction. Where are the sermons about those things being “evil”? Where are the shopping accountability partners and the groups that show up to make you leave work at 5:01 p.m. so you can focus on your family instead of your own sense of power and self-esteem?

Right now I find myself inclined to agree with Andy Borgmann, and I am a woman.

I think that our world in general, and the Christian “church” in particular, has lost its ability to view the naked body as a glorious work of art. We have made the deliciousness of sexuality a cheap commodity.

I think sex is beautiful and amazing and glorious and to be celebrated as sacred union! Sex can also be manipulative, abusive, demeaning, and sinful. Sex itself is neutral. How sex is used can be “good” or “bad.”

I think there are couples who can watch porn together for whom the visual stimulus does not create a lusting for the “false perfection” or the actual people on the screen, but a lust for one another.

I don’t subscribe to the view that “lust” is sin, either. The word that most Bible translators have used as “lust” simply means “strong desire.” “Strong desire” can be good OR bad. Jesus “lusted” to have the passover meal with his disciples. If “lust” itself is sinful, then Jesus sinned. Isn’t there an element of “lust” in how Yahweh loved Israel? He longed to be one with her. He wanted her–all of her. He wanted her to forsake all others and only have eyes for him. He dressed her in finery and jewelry. He defines Himself as a jealous God. It seems God had “strong desire.”

A hearty lust for your spouse is good. If seeing naked bodies in action fuels the flame you feel for your spouse, I think that’s fine. It becomes problematic when porn does not fuel lust for your spouse but for something else–a person other than your spouse or power or self-fulfillment without consideration for your spouse’s fulfillment too.

Porn is also problematic because you have to partake of porn to know if you will have a problem with it. But that’s also true of alcohol and fame and video-gaming and Blackberrying and Facebooking and even a position of power within a church. You won’t know if you are someone who will “go too far” on a consistent basis until you have “gone too far” on a consistent basis. A couple who knows themselves well and decide not to go near porn on the chance that one is likely to become addicted or to become insecure is a wise couple.

But, I wouldn’t condemn couples (including Christion couples) who see porn as a neutral thing to spark desire. People in relationships must communicate deeply. They must tell each other the truth. Then porn becomes just one more thing to figure out together. In my opinion, porn, like sex, is neutral–neither “good” nor “bad.”

I suspect that as a Christian female, I am pretty much standing alone on this one. But you never know…interesting things happen when Christians communicate in a forum which allows for anonymity. (I’m not sure I would feel safe enough to state this in my small group…Yeah, actually I would.)

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Andy… you are not understanding the statistics, imo.

I don’t believe the statistics are saying that 100% of the ppl are using pornography and only 42% see it as a problem – the other 58% think it’s ok. I think the statistic probably reflect that most of the other 58% either aren’t using pornography or someone is using but the partner is unaware.

Maybe there are is a percent of ppl who are aware of pornography usage but DON’T consider it a problem. However, that wasn’t stated – and would probably be small.

The 58% does not represent that group.

The 58% represents and includes the people who are saying there is no pornography usage of which they are aware.

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Okay, I went and read through the little article that you linked, and if you read to the bottom, you’ll find that Kerner does bring up how porn addiction can be a real problem in a relationship.

So I would just like to offer a quote that was a little further down in the article to balance out the first one. Kerner also says, “In the brain’s search for quick gratification, you can become just as habituated to it as a drug, and it’s easier to start feeling as if you need more and more of it. It starts to become a self-perpetuating, somewhat mind-numbing, and soul-deadening experience.

So porn is a little bit like gun control — we should mainly be concerned with the state of mind of the guy pulling the trigger. If a man is feeling tuned out and turned off, porn becomes a way of escaping from the relationship rather than just a harmless way to blow off some sexual steam.”

You can still debate whether porn is ever harmless. In fact, there are lots of little things Kerner has injected into the article that people might find debatable. But I felt it was only fair to at least bring up the fact that the original quote, taken out of context, sounds a lot more inflamatory than it probably should.

Sorry, Pete!
Jan C.´s last blog ..Champagne

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I’m seeing that people are justifying pornography. It’s fine to say Christians struggle with it – but to justify it?? When people use the word “Christian” – they must mean something other than a “follower of Christ” or a “disciple of Christ” if they don’t believe they have to do what Jesus says – AND they would rather lean to their own understanding than His Word.

When people denounce Jesus Christ’s teaching – I think they need to re-evaluate their use of the word “Christian”. I mean, if we say, “I know it’s wrong – but I struggle with it” – that’s one thing. But to say, “I make up my own rules of what is right or wrong – and it really doesn’t matter what Jesus says” – those people are not followers or disciples of Jesus Christ.

Here’s what Jesus says – and if we think we know more or can overrule Him reveals whether we are His disciples:

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

(Jesus taught that looking at pornography is an evil thought – the same as doing it – which is breaking the 10 commandments.)

Job 31:1 “I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl.

Job 1:1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.

(Job was able to make a covenant with his eyes not to look at a woman lustfully. God said Job eschewed evil and was upright. God blessed Job and made him the wealthiest man in that area of the world.)

Exodus 20:14″You shall not commit adultery.

Jeremiah 29:22 Because of them, all the exiles from Judah who are in Babylon will use this curse: ‘The LORD treat you like Zedekiah and Ahab, whom the king of Babylon burned in the fire.’ 23 For they have done outrageous things in Israel; they have committed adultery with their neighbors’ wives and in my name have spoken lies, which I did not tell them to do. I know it and am a witness to it,” declares the LORD.

(God saw the people doing wickedly in being adulterous and lustful. AS the result of this sin, they lost their wealth and protection from God and were given over to their enemies.)

In short, the Good Lord may help all of the people who struggle with pornography with all that leisure time and wealth they have on their hands.

He may send you into exile, cause your enemies to defeat your nation – and you may be so poor, broke, hurting, and destitute – that you are so focussed on trying to get your next meal and have a roof over your head – you won’t have time or attention for pornography.

God said it was wealth and being spoiled that was Sodom and Gomorrah’s downfall:

Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

God may cure the pornography addictions that have resulted from pride, fullness of bread, idleness, and self-centeredness.

God can cure it by bringing captivity, poverty, and famine.

He just might.

Unless you repent first, American Christians – then you may have this judgment pass over you.

Now, people were talking – but I think the Word… and the warning applies.

Unless God intervenes, we’re about to experience poverty, famine, and being handed over to our enemies.

Points to ponder.

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My husband has had cycles of being in internet crap which just cycled itself into porn. I would have to agree with your statistics which I’m now dealing with. This is not just his problem it has now become mine and it hurts like crazy.

I’d have to say that guy doesn’t have a clue about what a “Spa” day is like because one thing it is not is hurtful and porn is very hurtful to all involved … when the 30 seconds is over, the pain is only then beginning.

It hurts, it hurts really bad.

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@ttm

But, marriages have also been destroyed by romance novel addiction, shopping addiction, computer addiction, work addiction and golf addiciton and food addiction. Where are the sermons about those things being “evil”? Where are the shopping accountability partners and the groups that show up to make you leave work at 5:01 p.m. so you can focus on your family instead of your own sense of power and self-esteem?

EXACTLY!

Right now I find myself inclined to agree with Andy Borgmann, and I am a woman.

Well hello there (in case you are married and I just internet flirted with a married woman, then just: “thank you for agreeing with”)

People in relationships must communicate deeply. They must tell each other the truth.

Exactly

interesting things happen when Christians communicate in a forum which allows for anonymity.

It’s just unfortunate it takes anonymity for Christians to communicate honestly.

@I

Andy… you are not understanding the statistics, imo.

I don’t believe the statistics are saying that 100% of the ppl are using pornography and only 42% see it as a problem – the other 58% think it’s ok. I think the statistic probably reflect that most of the other 58% either aren’t using pornography or someone is using but the partner is unaware.

If that is the case, who ever did the study needs to re-take a statistics class. Given the source of the stats, I wouldn’t put it past the questions being and analysis being poorly formed. However, strictly speaking of statistic methodology, it is saying that 58% of people who’s spouse uses porn isn’t a point of insecurity (and 59% doesn’t make them feel any less attractive).

All that to say, most of my focus in life is in conversation with the secular, and I can definitely reinforce that from my experience (which is by no means un-biased) that there are many, many women out there that don’t see their partners porn usage an issue. This isn’t saying it is right or wrong, it is just an observation.
Andy Borgmann´s last blog ..Kentucky Lake Weekender: The End of Work Hard / Play Hard For A While

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@Andy: “If you think a perfect woman for a man is one who plays lots of video games with him, over and adventurous and fun sex life, you are hanging around the wrong men.”
I’m pretty sure you are not intellectual equipped to advise me on what sort of man I should be hanging around. That is not to say you aren’t intellectual at all- it’s just a bit pompous of a statement, wouldn’t you agree? I can absorb any point you’d like to make on any other matter, but on that matter in particular, you are talking out of your behind.
That being said, a woman would not choose a man that would cook a stellar meatloaf over one that provides the adventurous and fun sex life you speak of, either. So then our points are missing one another entirely. My point is that when I think chic flic, scenes of couples riding bikes together, etc come to mind. So what we’re talking about being harmful in a chic flic is the fantasy of the perfect guy, right, and setting unrealistic expectations on what “the perfect guy” is. SO we might hope that our guy takes us on a bike ride through the park then…do we actually NEED to be graphic here about what the girl needs to do to match up to a porn star? A child could watch most chic flicks with his/her parent, but would it be cool for them to watch Debbie Does Dallas? Probably not.
And to step outside of what porn does to a relationship and to feeling secure, the industry itself is outrageous. In Craig Gross’ XXX Church, he has familiarized himself greatly with the industry to discover the suicides, deseases, the typical “you’re watching an abused girl try to make a dollar to feed her fatherless children” cliche that is actually reality in many cases. Can you say that about chic flicks? Is Kate Hudson going to come down with HPV from kissing Hugh Jackman (umm? hmmm.); will her children’s friends see her movies and humiliate and ridicule her children; will she commit suicide out of guilt? Come on. One is HARDLY comparable to the other.

“And I am not trying to say that there aren’t women who like actual porn either. What I am saying is that few actually think about what makes porn “bad for a relationship” – they just assume it is bad. Once one actually examines why it is bad for a relationship, there is a lot more stuff that gets described away as “innocent” that is equally just as harmful – but we rarely discuss that in these conversations.”

Then, by all means, let’s discuss “that” in these conversations.
Most people don’t discuss why porn is bad because it’s emotionally damaging and how many people are capable of chipping away at all the hurt, resentment, and emotion enough to “study” why the feel as they do? How many people actually have the energy for analysis once they’ve been hurt? Granted, they should analyze it and should understand why it hurts, as with anything because it would be in their best interest to grow from, but I need your point to be made clearer, if possible, because I personally do not see how the manner in which a person deals with pain justifies or is relevant to why the pain was caused in the first place.

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Andy- it sounds like you are condoning porn..that or, just being argumentative…

I have personally witnessed porn destroy my brother-in-laws marriage, and greatly damage my own. I think the basic “argument” here that everyone is saying is an old one “How close can I get to the world, and still play Christian?” when God calls us to give ourselves wholeheartedly to HIM and we won’t WANT to get “Close” to the world then…

And for the record, I agree with Chystie- I don’t watch “chick flicks” or read romance novels…I *DO* however reccommend marriage counseling, mentoring from older couples, and immersing yourself in God’s word.

Just my opinion, in love, of course

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Dr. Kerner is a mouthpiece to the Enemy ~ making it sound like no big deal when it IS a BIG FREAKING addictive, marriage and family busting DEAL. I hate what porn has done to people I know and I hate the enemy’s casual “no big deal” schemes even more.
Heather´s last blog ..The presence of my Father

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hmmm. tricky emoticons.

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Oh.my.word. Thank you so much for getting on your soap box about this. It is so sad that society finds NOTHING wrong with porn. Gross. Gross. Gross. Thank you for bringing this topic front and center and not shying away from it.

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Quit trynna be nice, Andy Borgmann. You [sic]‘ed a person earlier. The jig is up.

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Andy – don’t you have work to do?

Or, are you working on something for your own blog / show here by playing devil’s advocate to every comment made?

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Andy, I think what I you are saying is that you don’t think porn is good for a marriage, but other things are bad too, so we should get the planks out of our own eyes before the specks out of our brothers.

That is more or less what I am getting at.

Quit trynna be nice, Andy Borgmann. You [sic]‘ed a person earlier. The jig is up.

Yes, but you have already covered the fact I am pompous so you shouldn’t expect anything but [sic]ing someone. Plus, if you go back and read my comments, there should be plenty to [sic] on me since I am horrendous at spelling and grammar. It still doesn’t change the fact that your photos are fantastic.
Andy Borgmann´s last blog ..Kentucky Lake Weekender: The End of Work Hard / Play Hard For A While

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My comment has nothing to do with your post – although I am going to read it. I wanted to let you know that I was listening to the first sermon in the My Messed Up Family series. Too bad I didn’t have the video – I sooo wanted to see what Brandi was going to wear to bed every night til Chriatmas lol Anyway today I managed to tie part of the sermon in my human lifespan development lecture. And I do already know a few things that would be in my box when it comes my turn to get married (I might be 8X5 – do the math problem lol) but I have not given up and I am finally praying for my future husband. God showed me some things over the summer – like one being the reason why I am the answer to previous math problem and haven’t married yet is because none of the guys have been the right one for me. Anyway in my box I know would be:

take your shoes off before coming inside the house
mop the kitchen and bathroom floors by hand
don’t sit on the bed in street clothes
one of my kitties likes to jump on the counters, stove, high places, and people’s backs

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What a loaded question and the comments have been interesting to read. Porn is dangerous and in more than one way — porn is addictive and it’s dangerous. I work w/ abused children and most all of the sexually abused children were raped or molested by a person who views porn. And this person is usually a parent — Dads and Moms. I’ve seen both.

It’s not harmless — it’s dangerous and it puts marriages at risk and it places children at risk.

Do I think every person who’s addicted to porn will abuse a child? No. But I do know that recent studies have shown that the majority of convicted sexual predators are addicted to porn.

We, as the church, have a job to do — we are called to PROTECT our children. This isn’t the government’s job — it’s ours and somewhere along the way we’ve abdicated this role.

Whatever you think about porn and it’s addictiveness, let’s err on the side of caution and keep children safe. That is the very LEAST we can do.
Mary´s last blog ..Truth or Consequences

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You are right, Pete. Porn is nothing close to a pedicure. Generally people don’t go to counselors and harm their marriages by frequent trips to the salon.

I talk about this in one of my posts:
http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2009/06/17/getting-to-the-root-of-lust-confessions-of-a-porn-addict/
Luke´s last blog ..What are children searching for online? – “Porn” and “Sex” rank in the top 10

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Wow pushing your own writing on a pastor’s blog. I go away for hours to do actual work that makes people’s lives better to come back to someone’s comments that went through my blog and picked out one post? Gotta say it’s lame dude. Did you happen to read my last blog post about beauty? Nope, you just pointed out the ONE that I wrote about sitting next to Keith Urban. I’m sorry, I think the guy smelled good- there is nothing wrong with that. I didn’t go home and watch porn after that. It did not ruin my relationships with my friends or family. Obviously you aren’t having an honest conversation- you are nitpicking everything anyone says. There are lots of detrimental things to marriages and relationships. Porn is one of the big ones that is a door opener for some even bigger problems. I will take someone’s experience over someone’s opinion any day. Thanks to everyone who has shared their personal experiences, because that’s the real show of damage.
Jessica´s last blog ..More Beautiful You

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WOW. I’m totally not getting into this topic but WOW – I LOVE this conversation!

Chick flicks are dumb and absolutely have the potential to bring division into a marriage between one average man and one average woman. I totally get Andy’s analogy. Good for you, Andy. The Church SHOULD be dealing with women and their run-away emotions the same way they deal with men and their run-away sexuality. (Just to, you know, polarize the issues a little more – although I do not think that these issues are so clearly defined by gender.)

The thing is – one doesn’t have to vilify the porn industry or all Sandra Bullock movies – if there is an element in your life that is bringing division into your marriage – then you and your spouse need to deal with it. Who cares about the other 41% or 59%.
Sarah Walston´s last blog ..My Newly Decorated Oven

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Pete, I appreciate this blog and the kind of man you are. I know Brandi does as well. My own heart and personal experience tells me that porn is damaging in countless ways but I also found Andy’s comments interesting as well because he made me ask myself a different set of questions. For example, outside of particular circumstances (from one relationship to the next), is there something intrinsically wrong about the act involved in porn itself?” Since some couples believe that porn actually contributes to their intimacy, it is impossible to just assume that porn is damaging to each and every relationship… BUT, is there something intrinsically wrong with porn itself that makes it off limits for Christians? I think there is something wrong because first and foremost I think that objectifying another human being for your own personal pleasure and personal gain is not the way that a man or woman loves his or her neighbor. Not to mention, on a very basic level, porn is most often (though perhaps not always) simply adultery being videotaped which means that the very act is sin. Viewing that act, then, in my opinion, cannot be an innocent little snack. This is of course all my own opinion which is very much based on a Christian worldview. I think one of the issues here is that some of us are asking the particular question- is porn destructive for Christians? And some are asking the more universal question- is porn destructive for everyone everywhere? The latter question is perhaps the more difficult question even though I still would agree with where you went with it in the end. One of my questions is, is it possible for people who operate under a different worldview construct to be less affected by porn than Christians? I don’t know the answer to that but I think it is an interesting question.
Melissa Fitzpatrick´s last blog ..Simulcast Commissioning

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If this is true, then I want my wife to stop getting pedicures. Right now!

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Thank you Sarah Walston – anything when given more priority than your family and responsibilities can cause division in a relationship.
If you think the only problem with porn is that it sets unrealistic expectations then I whole heartedly agree with Andy.
In my case porn led to chat sites and chat sites led to personnel email (with pics attached) and that led to phone calls which led to meet ups…which was all about lies, addiction and guilt.
Some folks may be strong enough, evolved enough, Christ like enough to stand on that ledge and not fall off, I am not that strong. I stay away from temptation and from the mere thought that ‘it’s just a stress reducer’. Alcohol and drugs have also reduced stress in my life, but that doesn’t make them good for me.
As for anonymity I can stand up and say what I’ve been through but I’m not sure my loved ones are.

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WOW, what a discussion. For the record, I fall on the side of ‘porn is wrong’ and do not waver from that.

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I believe porn is damaging and should be avoided altogether. I believe in most cases, it is utterly disrespectful and leads to pain and destruction, quickly. The damage can certainly be irrevocable. I wish I didn’t know this from past personal experience.

I also believe that chick flicks paint an incredibly unrealistic picture of love and relationships, more often than not. A perfectly romantic chick flick can cause a younger unmarried woman to dream of the impossible. The same perfectly romantic flick can cause an established married to feel like she didn’t quite hit the jackpot. Both of these scenerios can be extremely damaging.

As for spa day….I haven’t afforded a spa in forever….but I will say that I never had allowed a male to massage me. A female massage therapist felt more clinical and relaxing. A male, especially if he had been attractive….whew…can’t even think about. It’s hot in here.

I’m addicted to coffee.
Melissa Irwin´s last blog ..Round #2

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Is this still Pete’s blog…or did I miss something and it morphed into Andy’s?

Pete thanks for being open to discussing this…got me thinking (now that could be dangerous)!
Jessica´s last blog ..Happy Birthday Caitlyn!!

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@TTM

Andy Borgmann, I was married, am not married, and am dating an awesome guy right now, so perhaps I shall be married again.

You let me know if that doesn’t work out

@Jessica

Wow pushing your own writing on a pastor’s blog. I go away for hours to do actual work that makes people’s lives better to come back to someone’s comments that went through my blog and picked out one post? Gotta say it’s lame dude.

Come on, at least recognize the irony a little bit. I am sure you are a wonderful person, and I didn’t mean to make that offensive.

@Paula

Andy – good luck on the post!

Thanks.

@Nic

I’m going to have to agree with Andy above about the unrealistic expectations created by chick-flicks and modern portrayals of marriage and relationships.

Yes! I got 1!

@Ellis

but I think if you were completely honest and not “writing for ratings” you might have a slightly more conservative view.

I stand by statements as my own. Frankly, Jesus wasn’t a conservative or a liberal. It isn’t always about right and left. I am liberal on some issues. Conservative on others. Like most of us – just trying to figure out what truth is through conversation and discussion.

@Melissa

I also believe that chick flicks paint an incredibly unrealistic picture of love and relationships, more often than not. A perfectly romantic chick flick can cause a younger unmarried woman to dream of the impossible. The same perfectly romantic flick can cause an established married to feel like she didn’t quite hit the jackpot. Both of these scenerios can be extremely damaging.

Great points.

@Rich

Great points from all, @andy included!

Thank you.

@Jessica

Is this still Pete’s blog…or did I miss something and it morphed into Andy’s?

Hey, don’t blame me. I was just responding to what people had directed towards me. Don’t worry, I am sure I’ll fade back into the background soon.
Andy Borgmann´s last blog ..Kentucky Lake Weekender: The End of Work Hard / Play Hard For A While

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Well, this is the most interesting discussion I have ever read on a pastor’s blog!

Hamlet by William Shakespeare; the Queen speaking: “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”

I would substitute “Andy” for “The lady”

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I’d also like to thank Pete for raising the standard regarding the use of porn in our society. I, too, know firsthand how damaging it can be to families, not to mention the guilt it leaves the viewing mind with. Those images remain in the brain and it is an addiction professionals have stated can be worse than drug addiction since the ‘visual substance’ is constantly there, in the mind, always at the addicted individual’s disposal.

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Honestly, if I do this again and it doesn’t go through I give up. I am the one in my marriage with an issue with pornography and I lead my husband toward it. It has nothing to do with addiction for me, but everything to do with my past that has left me broken and struggling with the ability to have an intimate relationship with my husband. I use it to help me numb myself so I don’t have to think/feel about the process. My husband has absolutely NO clue that’s what I’m doing, but it’s just a dissociative device for me.

That said, it is destructive and causes me almost as much pain as it blocks out. It is awful of me to do that to my husband and I know that. I hate it. I hate how it makes me feel. I hate how much I know those women must be feeling so used, but sometimes I just don’t care. So no, harmless as a spa day? Not buyin’ it.

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Wow – I can’t compete with Joseph’s amazing testimony, but I would like to say thank you, Pete, for your soapbox. Pornography is a serious problem that destroys a person’s relationship with God, undermines the marriage relationship, and cheapens a holy act of love. There is no element of harmlessness in it.
Vanity of Vanities´s last blog ..Why?

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@Julie, I”m stopping to pray for you right now. If you’re not already in Christian counseling I would strongly encourage you to consider that option.

Not sure if you live around here or not but if you do I know a wonderful counselor I would love to connect you with if you’re open to it.

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As parents that grew up in homes with porn and being Non Christians that is how it was viewed it was normal…Well it is not nor is it ok we use Hedgebuilders on our computers here at home ,and have spoken to our 10 and 8 year old sons to treat porn like a loaded gun. If you see it run, it could very well destroy you.
lisa gardiner´s last blog ..Happy in the rain…

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I’m sorry but why are we comparing porn and chick flicks? Are women getting addicted to chick flicks? Are they having dirty thoughts and lusting and doing “certain” things while watching them?

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WOW… talk about Pandora’s Box. Guess it was opened on this one. I love that you’re not afraid to discuss the “difficult” topics that many dance around.

I would say that we, as a culture, have become so desensitized to the consequences of our actions that the consequences of sin have fallen off of our radar. It begins with pornography, which leads to addiction, which leads to lies, which leads to bondage to to the enemy.

I have never gone through that because of a trip to the spa.

I think there’s a study out there that can prove anything you want and a statistic to support your point regardless of what you’re saying. The proof is in the reality of people’s lives. Look at what pornography does to them. Broken marriages. Shattered hearts. Confused children. Destructive lives. Financial ruin.

Thankfully there is recovery and restoration in Christ. The one and only statistic I need is that His Truth will set me free 100% of the time, and it’s available to everyone out there.
@hasbell´s last blog ..AUTHENTIC AND UNCHANGING…

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Yeah, that guy might be on crack.
kristiapplesauce´s last blog ..Book shelf

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Pete,

I agree. Preach it boy!
ransom33´s last blog ..IT IS TIME!

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@ Lindy Abbott wrote, “My boys and their friends get really offended when the youth leader tells the girls that they are thinking about sex every few seconds”

GET A NEW YOUTH LEADER!!!

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@K, Praying for you pal.

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One question for both sides:

Is cheating on your spouse like an intoxicating glance at a very attractive stranger?

Think about it.

What was the church’s reaction to Jesus when he stated that looking at a woman with lust was the same as adultery?

They must have been like, “Whoa!, are you kidding me?! I mean, c’mon, Jesus. Adultery destroys marriages and families. A little glance never hurt anyone. How can you even compare the two?!”

Wonder what he was trying to teach them.
Tony York´s last blog ..Ready or Hoping?

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Are you freaking kidding me?
Well, well put.

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Good stand Pete.
Joey´s last blog ..Stones From Elevated Places

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I think a better analogy is that what porn is to men is what a steamy romance novel is to women. Both stimulate the passions (both what the Church Fathers called the passions, meaning the sinful nature, and passionate feelings, meaning sexual feelings.) Both encourage a person to think of someone else as a sexual object rather than turning to one’s spouse in the sacramental union that is sex within marraige. Both set up false ideals and expectations (porn of body types and sexual performance, romance novels of personality types and romantic performance) that can dim the light of even the most brightly shining marriage since who can compare to airbrushed perfection or fictional relationships?

My husband does not indulge in porn out of respect for me and I do not indulge in romance novels out of respect for him. If I read romance novels and start getting “shiny sparkles” in my head about how the male character treats the female character in the novels, I stop appreciating the beauty and love that my husband brings to my life. He is a kind and generous-hearted man but no man alive can live up to fictional romance and I would rather focus on the love he brings to me than start feeling sour grapes because he doesn’t bring some perfect, idealized performance to our relationship. Likewise, I am glad that I don’t have to worry about what image of physical perfection he’s carrying in his head when he gazes upon my own very flawed beauty. I know that when he sees me, he sees *me* rather than just seeing the ways in which I do not resemble some porn queen.

Spas? Not even close. Not in the same ball park at all!

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As a girl that struggles with pornography I would totally have to laugh at what the doctor says. In my own experience, the wondering that something was wrong with me, the fear that I would not be satisfied with my future husband and the difficulty that would cause in my future marriage, the possibility that I could cause the same things for my little bros if I slipped up and left stuff on the computer, the shame and guilt the enemy used to keep me down for so long. I don’t think I would consider that a 30 sec spa by any stretch…more like an STD.

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Check out this new video about a couple that fought through this struggle in their marriage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcpotyZ_oSM
Luke´s last blog ..Supreme Court Decisions Pertaining to the Legal Regulation of Pornography

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