Okay, so I may be opening a can of worms today, but I thought this would be an interesting conversation.
I’ve received a handful of emails from people who were upset Cross Point didn’t do more to celebrate the fourth of July on Sunday. Specifically they would have liked to have heard some patriotic music and more mention of patriotism. We tend to get emails like this around holidays because we usually don’t plan our services around most holidays including, but not limited to Mother’s Day, Fathers Day, Veteran’s Day, and New Years (this is no way means we don’t think these days are important). A matter of fact the only two holidays we generally change our programming for would be Christmas and Easter.
I’m in no way suggesting this is the right approach, but simply the way we’ve done it over the past 6 years. There are some amazing churches right here in Nashville that plan massive events around such holidays that serve as outreach events to their community. We’ve just never felt led to take that approach.
I saw an interesting article in Christianity Today entitled “U.S. Churches’ Recognition of Independence Day Varies Widely” discussing this same debate. Part of the article seemed to suggest that churches embracing patriotism is actually a fairly new practice which surprised me.
Elaborate services at this time of year have become more common with the “religification” of America after 9/11, said Richard Pierard, a history professor at Gordon College in Wenham, Mass. “I think it’s become intensified because of the politicization of American evangelicalism,” he said.
Americans linked patriotism with religion in the 1950s as they sought to differentiate themselves from “godless” communists, said Pierard. The connection, he said, grew stronger during Ronald Reagan’s presidency.
“Since the 1980s, you find you can mobilize a very large segment of the population with these patriotic themes when you link them to religion,” he said.
Anyway, I’m eager to hear what you think.
Should churches be more mindful in programing their Sunday morning services around national holidays? Are there any dangers to doing so?
In my opinion, I don’t think the church should be more mindful. Our focus is on God, not on holidays, etc. Our true freedom comes from the Lord. Maybe the people who want it more focused on the holidays are not putting their focus on the right things :\ People need to reprioritize… This is just what I think!
Acknowleging mothers on Mother’s Day, Father’s on Father’s Day, Vets/soldiers on Memorial Day/Independence Day seems only right, but to build an entire service around the “theme” shouldn’t be necessary( although it is expected by many).
We aren’t really coming to the House of God to honor men, but to worship the Lord.
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I think acknowledgment could be appropriate but certainly is not necessary at church.
Also, I think we should find ways outside of church to celebrate these holidays. Sunday church services are intended for worship/celebration of God, not our mothers/fathers/forefathers. Just my two cents…
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“We’ve just never felt led to take that approach.” That should be ‘nough said!
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I’m Catholic. We follow a liturgical calendar. These do not include National holidays.
We may, however, end with “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” or “America”, which are patriotic hymns.
Helen’s last blog post..Firetrucks on My Fourth (Actually Third) of July
I am not a fan of using Patriotic music in a worship service. I have a personal issue with it. It has more to do with people trying to tie the US to the Church. The US is not God’s chosen nation, and by singing patriotic songs in worship, it seems as though we think we are. I would say keep them separate. I offer this as the personal opinion of a pastor and a US Army veteran.
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I’d love to see church member poll results to the question “What action does The 4th of July commemorate?’.
While, I love our nation and I’m glad we separated from Great Britain… Jesus seemed to spend his whole life connecting all nations.
I’d prefer church to be about Jesus that day.. although you might try wearing a red, white and blue outfit.
As a pastor the only two holidays that we do any type of special planning for would be Easter and Christmas. I don’t think it’s wrong or bad to focus on July 4th or other national holidays it’s just not something we have chosen to focus on.
It is really a question of who we are celebrating on Sunday. Are we celebrating Moms, Dads, the USA, our veterans, etc? Or are we celebrating Jesus?
@billy_johnson’s last blog post..A little July 4th Fun
I don’t think the church has a responsibility to be more “patriotic”. Church services should be strictly a time for worship and teaching/learning about our Father.
I am an Iraq veteran who is headed to Afghanistan in December.
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Everyone has already said what is on my mind (and more eloquently), but I agree- we are not at church to celebrate holidays, we are there to worship God. Our pastor takes pretty much the same approach you do; he’ll acknowledge the servicemen by having them stand, but his sermon is never changed simply because of the date on the calendar- except Christmas & Easter. Honestly I probably wouldn’t like it if he did change it; I am not there to get something I can get on tv or at a communuity bbq- I’m there to be fed the Word of God.
I think it’s fine to mention and maybe even honor Moms, Dads, and Veterans on the days that our country has designated to do so, but I don’t think it’s necessary or even appropriate to focus solely on that. I agree with those who have said that church is about worshipping God, not men.
A year or so ago, I heard a pastor talk about why they don’t make a big deal about Mother’s and Father’s day, and I had never thought about it. He said he wants to be sensitive to the people in the audience who aren’t celebrating on that day. People who have lost a mom or dad and are hurting, or people who are desperately wanting to be a mom or dad and aren’t able to be at that time. Since hearing that, I’ve read blogs of women who say they avoid church on those days for that very reason because of the pain it brings to them.
Just another perspective for people to consider…
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My question would be “how does patriotism support our spiritual growth and understanding of God’s will?”. I would suggest that we have a plethora of global issues driven by the volatile mix of religion and politics. If we develop properly in a spiritual sense will we not celebrate the right things that bring us closer to God as we grow? That’s why I attend. I can find a block party, pic nic or countless other collective efforts to celebrate the mundane. I look for much, much deeper meaning at church. Thanks for asking!
I think a church service is a time to worship and learn about God together, not mothers fathers vets independence from Britain etc.
That being said, I don’t see anything wrong with a church sponsored 4th of July picnic or Mother’s Day Brunch or something. I think it’s nice for church to feel like a family and it’s fun to celebrate holidays with family. It just doesn’t need to occur during the actual church service.
ps- I don’t mean make light of the ultimate sacrifice made by our service people who have given their lives. I just feel we need to be careful not to mix politics and religion in our effort to develop spiritually. I believe a focus on the right things will lead to a deeper tolerance of our political differences. Our country and our independence should be celebrated, but not in church. In my humble opinion, of course.
My thoughts have already been expressed in prior responses. I agree that services don’t need to center around these holidays but an occassional recognition of moms, dads, vets or the occassional “God Bless America” doesn’t take away.
As you know – you’ll never make everyone happy, so don’t let the emails bring ya down!
~Kate
Katy’s last blog post..Relative Fun….
Granted, CP isn’t the kind of church that hosts a blow-out patriotic event. Maybe I’m just old-fashioned and sentimental, but I don’t see the harm in acknowledging the birth of our nation in church. And what does “separation” have to do with that? God’s name is all over the documents written by our forefathers. As a nation, we have have turned our back on God, but surely we can still find some way to thank Him for the nation we live in and the freedoms we enjoy. And yes, at church. Doesn’t have to be the whole service, but maybe a taped interview with a veteran? Or a closing song (sans the tubas)?
But that’s just me. Maybe we should ask our veterans or those currently serving in the military what they think. I’m just sayin’….
I agree with this guy. But I’m not American so may have a different take on things. Church isn’t about being American. Or Scottish. Or any other nationality. It is, or should be, about the God you believe in.
That said, one thing American churches do VERY well (in my opionion) is their whole ‘community’ thing. And I can understand why people want to celebrate Mothers day/ Labour day / July 4th with the community they’re already a part of.
I don’t know if that makes me a yes or a no though.
Carolyn’s last blog post..Happy 4th.
Agree with you Diane. Independence Day, specifically, is a celebration of Freedom, and primarily the freedom to practice the religion of your choice. I can think of no better place to celebrate freedom than at church.
The New Testament speaks so boldly of the concept of freedom in Christ, and to tie that freedom, with the freedom that we as Americans enjoy to simply worship is one of the most appropriate things we can do in church, on any Sunday.
So I say pray earnestly, worship freely, pledge allegiance to the flag, sing God Bless America, and then go eat watermelon. Sounds like a great day to me…
You guys are making some great points.
@Britt, I’m so wearing the red, white and blue tie next year.
I have to admit by the responses from the younger folk, that I’m a bit shocked. Honoring veterans who exemplify true sacrifice is a reminder of God’s sacrifice, regardless of politics.
America is a special place because it was begun on Christian principles. Of course we don’t worship country and I can understand the tension of religion and patriotism, but to ignore it completely is equivalent to patting our service members on the head and relegating them to the shadows.
America is unique because we can change the direction of the country, we can have a say. Would we serve God in a totaliarian gov’t? Of course! But that doesn’t mean we should pooh-pooh our country and take it for granted.
In a society that is as self-indulgent as ours, we should honor those who make sacrifices for others. That’s not just patriotism, it’s just right.
P.S. I remember the Sunday after 9/11. The interstate was literally backed up because so many people were flocking to church, only to be turned away because it was standing room only. Why? They were seeking God and needing reassurance in a time of national tragedy. I don’t think it was “political” by any stretch. Just God & country.
Okay, someone cue the balloons . . .
I actually spent some time thinking about this on the 4th myself, so I was excited to see your post about it this morning. I sometimes think that I mistakenly substitute patriotism for thanking God for our freedoms. I think it’s very important to be thankful for the great country that we live in and the sacrifices of those who work to preserve our freedoms, but we should ALWAYS remember to thank God first and foremost when it comes to our country. Without Him, freedom wouldn’t be a possibility in the first place.
I think churches would be foolish to completely ignore patriotic holidays, but I do think they should emphasize God’s role in the country’s successes, not just those of the earthly players.
I love our country. We live in a great country, not a faultless one, but there’s no place on planet Earth I’d rather live. I proudly served in the military.
I go to church to hear about Jesus Christ, to be among other believers and love them in Him, to learn to love non-believers in a way that honors Jesus, and to be encouraged in the Word. I am a new creature in Christ.
And, I’m patriotic. Fourth of July is one of my favorite holidays and I celebrate it with family and friends. But when I’m in church, I want to celebrate the sacrifice and love of Christ, I want to celebrate that He’s given grace instead of what I deserve. Too many things compete with Him in our hearts already.
Maybe, rather than bring more patriotism into the church service, we should bring more of what we get in our church services out to the rest of our country.
Doesn’t that seem like the real issue? Just my big ol’ opinion.
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Our Worship Pastor did a post on this same issue last year (http://tinyurl.com/l6of2t). All four points were good, but I liked #1 the best “America didn’t die on the cross for my sins.”
David Bryant’s last blog post..7 Quotes For Father’s Day (Belated!)
I create all the services for our ministry (with a team of course!), and I felt it was important to at least acknowledge the 4th. So we opened with a great patriotic video that transitioned us into announcements, and announcements offered an opportunity for our congregation to stop after the service and write a card to our servicemen/women…the response was huge!
The funny thing is I didn’t plan the servicemen care package thingy…it just was an opportunity that we placed on this day not even noticing until the week of -that it fit perfectly. So, we do NOT plan entire services around holidays – but whenever I add just a small respectful piece God almost always adds something Himself (like the card opportunity), that leads me to believe he wants our congregation to feel respected and proud that our ministry is in touch with where their focus is.
(I only had one guy ask why we didn’t sing patriotic songs… not bad out of 2,000 in attendance I guess)…
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Apparently, I am in the minority in the comments – - but it might depend on what area you live in. More than half of our congregation has or is serving in the military. Both the Navy and the Coast Guard are in our small community and many other branches are represented. It is hard to sit in the same room with wives sitting alone because their husbands are on six or year long deployments without feeling grateful. A beautiful woman recently gave birth to her first child while her husband was in Iraq, I cannot even begin to imagine what she is going through. While our service was not focused on the men and women who have served our country – we honored them for helping to keep our freedom of worship a reality. We sang songs like American the Beautiful which is actually a prayer asking God to shed his grace and mend the flaws of our nation. The service and music in no way detracted our focus on God, but it allowed all things in our world to be given to God. Our church does not support nor condem any war or military action, but it supports the families who are giving their lives for our freedom.
It is easy to have a picnic on the Fourth of July, enjoy the company of friends, and watch fireworks when so many men and women of country are separated from their family and friends. While their sacrifice in no way compares to our Savior’s – church isn’t a contest about who gave the most.
Our church celebrates ALL mothers on Mother’s Day, not just women who have raised children. There are so many women who have been unable to have their own family, but have mothered through working in the nursery, teaching classes, and just providing arms for those who needed a hug. I am grateful to attend a church that recognizes women who stand up and make a difference for God. The same goes for Father’s Day.
I believe that the church should support and recognize those who are serving the way they have been called – whether it be military, parents, or teachers.
I disagree with the idea that the church needs to be separate from what is going on in our world today. It needs to be relevant and touch on things that are real to us. Separating church from everyday life makes it feel unobtainable and obsolete. My prayer for the church as a whole is that it focuses more on everyday struggles than what the world is doing wrong. Dealing with the struggles of marriage, sex, parenting, judgement, being lukewarm, real service, money, and humbleness is more important than focusing on what is wrong with the world.
Pete-
I was a worship pastor for 12 years and it was always so interesting to me on Memorial Day or the 4th…whatever…when someone would say, “Let’s honor those who’ve served our country” and people would stand and applaud..sometimes endlessly. It was always a curious comparison to how people worship. Some of those same people who clapped their hands off could barely be bothered to engage (even slightly) in worship. It more than bothered me. It felt wrong to me. That’s not to say that those men and women don’t deserve to be honored or loved on…it’s just a weird context. I am more of the opinion that Jesus is Lord of the Nations and wants us to have that same kind of heart. Nationalism makes me uncomfortable on many levels…but ALWAYS when it happens in a church setting.
On a different and less controversial topic…I have heard about you ever since you moved here and it’s killing me that I can’t remember which friend you and I have in common. (probably many) There was someone I know who lept telling me that one of their best friends was coming to town and pastoring –it was you. Anyway, maybe one day we’ll figure it out. My family and I are at Fellowship but I would LOVE to come visit sometime. Would love to chat more in person at some point.
peace to you!
B
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@Brandon, would love to hook up sometime. Hope things are going well for you!
@Diane Moody, great point!
We didn’t do anything except mention our thankfulness that we can gather to worship freely and recognize military personnel. No songs, no videos etc.
We don’t want to send the message that Christian = American. We celebrate most of all our freedom in Christ and then our thanksgiving – sincere and heartfelt – that we enjoy some of the freedoms here on earth in the US. We are blessed and we recognize that, it is just not the focus of our services.
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I loved reading all these responses. We don’t do a big shindig for the 4th but a church in our town held an old fashioned picnic, gospel singalong and I heard it was great. They did it at a park on the river, it was an outreach. I think its nice it was offered but I didn’t think I missed anything by our church not doing a “special Sunday.” What I notice is that CP does a ton of outreach, I mean a ton. I read all the time about their acts of service or handing out oranges at a marathon, or a neighborhood deal. It makes me want to throw a block party right here in Idaho! There is so much to be said being just the “hands and feet” of Christ and really taking time to touch those at random times. our church recently planted a church in Missoula, MT and they did a neat outreach, they teamed up w/ a local grocery store and handed out gift cards to the first 200 people that walked in. They were $20, it was free, no strings attached, it could be kept or donated back in groceries to the local food bank, in this very “unchurched” area it was remarkable the response, some were reduced to tears and others gave and gave and gave. Some just rec’d. I am thankful that the CP community focuses so much on outreach, no matter the time of year. To me, that is what it means to live in this country.
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Chris, I just logged pack on to post somethinging thats’s been swimming around in my head, you’ve kind of beaten me to it though.
I wanted to add that there is a danger when celebrating/honouring groups of people during ‘special’ days that you actually EXCLUDE people rather than be inclusive, which in my mind a church should. Ask anyone who’s ever lost a pregnany or or been unable to conceive what Mother’s/Fathers day means to them and you’ll get a vastly different answer to parentswith children (including grown up ones). I love that your church tries to make this as incluseive as possible, but speaking personally, I’m unsure a recognition that ‘you mother in OTHER ways’ would lessen the blow any.
I think there’s a danger people may feel excluded when celebrating other days/celebrations. Intentionally or otherwise. But when you honour something or someone, you make the point that it is worth of honouring. And when you draw attention to what something or someone IS, you also, by deafault, draw attention to what other somethings or someones are NOT. This MAY lead to anyone who feels they don’t 100% agree, or who doesn’t fit in to the catergory of ‘Mom’ ‘serviceperson’ ‘dad’ ‘vet’ etc feeling excluded.
Don’t get me wrong. I think America rocks. It’s seperate to God though. Likewise, people are Christians regardless w=of whether they’re Moms, dads, war vets or Americans.
There is a lot of friction in the world caused or enhanced by division between religion. Likewise, the ‘global church’ seems to have a lot of division based on demomination, doctrine etc and I think it’s probably good to be wary of anything that potentially may be felt to cause more division.
Carolyn’s last blog post..Happy 4th.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance175.html
Please read the above link before you read any of my comments. I am a U.S. Marine combat Veteran from Iraq and I like the fact that CP did not mix church and state this weekend. Is it ok to say “Happy July the 4th” on Sunday?” Of course, but songs and Independence Day motivated speeches are unnecessary.
Go visit Cornerstone Church in Madison, TN if you want a Patriotic driven service with the possibility of a famous political guest speaker. Then that church will ask you as a visitor to give them money to help pay for this expensive guest speaker. Trust me, I went and saw Olie North there last year. Does anyone remember Jesus flipping over the tables in the temple?
I think it’s great to recognize what God has blessed us with… we’ve always used God in our country’s tag lines (well, until recently) and we’ve always used the terms “God’s country” or “God and country” when serving. So why not utilize it as an opportunity to offer up our gratitude for what God has done for our country and what he’s doing through our country?
Pete, to me, every Sunday is a teaching opportunity. So, no matter what we are doing, we should be able to teach through it.
I agree that on Veteran’s Day and on the 4th those who have sacrificed so much can (or should?) be recognized, or at least mentioned. The whole service doesn’t have to be a rah-rah America is always right no-matter-what patriotic blow out. I’ve seen those types of things done and they make me feel more than a little uncomfortable. I think because it flavors the message we send to an unchurched person in a way that says, “flag-waving first and God’s purposes second.”
I do want to respond to an earlier post which mentioned that some people likely stay away from church on Mothers Day and Fathers Day because of the family-related pain they are dealing with. There is probably a lot of truth to that notion. I think that after we recognize Moms and Dads on those days, the next most important thing we can do is teach the truth that “even though your dad (or mom) may have been way less than perfect, or even abusive, your heavenly Father is not like that. He understand your pain and wants you to find out what real love looks and feels like. You are His child and he wants you to be free of all that stuff that has you feeling broken and worthless.”
- Mike
Nationalism in any form is inappropriate for Christianity. Jesus is head of the church. “God bless the whole world … not just us.”
As an Australian living in the US I really struggle with the praise and worship of country that goes on around the 4th of July. I feel excluded and in some ways belittled by comments about “The greatest country in the world” etc, comments which from my perspective are not only not true but are also rather offensive to those that are not Americans. How can a country be the greatest in the world when it has the highest infant mortality rate of any western nation and the biggest gap between rich and poor of any western nation too?
Recently I was working with Native Americans for whom these ideas are probably even more offensive to as they are for some African Americans who are much more aware than we whites are that American has become what it is because of genocide and slavery.
To me the focus of our worship is the transcultural kingdom of God in which there is “neither male nor female, slave nor free, Greek nor Jew” I think that our focus should be on embracing people
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I trust the leaders of the church to decide what they as an individual church should do.
Personally, where we are planting New Passion, we have the Army Communication Headquarters about 2 miles from the school we will be meeting in, therefore we will probably utilize some of the holidays that focus on the military to reach out to the soldiers in our community. For instance, on the Friday before we launch (September 11) we are doing a community “Movie on the Lawn” and at that event we will do something to recognize and honor our soldiers, although that is not in our service, I am sure we will utilize some of our services in a similar way, when appropriate.
I just think each church should do what they feel God leading them to do. How can you complain with that?
I think there are all kinds of problems when a church decides to replace the “Call to Worship” with a patriotic anthem, and changes the focus of worship for the rest of the service, even if it is once a year. I read a great essay by Bob Hyatt on this about seven years ago, and have posted it on my blog every year since. Profoundly Disturbed on the Fourth of July.
Stephen’s last blog post..“Profoundly Disturbed on the Fourth of July.”
We did honor our soldiers here. But keep in mind, we’re over 80% military residents here and it has a great deal more to do with our men and women serving and letting them know they’re appreciated and prayed for than patriotism in and of itself.
I don’t think it’s necessary for churches to build services around Patriotic holidays. I do think those occasions are an opportunity to specifically pray for our servicemen, our leaders and our country.
joyce’s last blog post..It’s A Grand Old Flag
@Nick, I like the way you said, “I trust the leaders of the church to decide what they as an individual church should do.”
I have written about this extensively on my blog:
http://thoughtsaboutnothing.com/war-and-peace/
I think that america and the church do not go together. The seperation of church and state is a great thing and the church should stay that way.
Derek Webb sums it all up for me in a song “a king and his kingdom”
*My first allegiance is not to a flag, a country, or a man
My first allegiance is not to democracy or blood
It’s to a king & a kingdom
There are two great lies that I’ve heard:
“the day you eat of the fruit of that tree, you will not surely die”
And that Jesus Christ was a white, middle-class republican
And if you wanna be saved you have to learn to be like Him
But nothing unifies like a common enemy
And we’ve got one, sure as hell
But he may be living in your house
He may be raising up your kids
He may be sleeping with your wife
Oh no, he may not look like you think*
Are July 4/mothers day/fathers day/memorial day a part of the gospel? I don’t think so!!! We are called to preach Christ & Him crucified! I give you props, I wish my church didn’t find making certain members happy by celebrating our country more important than sharing Christ. I am not putting down patriotism, I love our country but I find the Gospel more important by far.
Do I think it is necessary or needed to give a nod or plan part of the service around the 4th? No. Do I like it personally? Yes. Singing some of those songs just gives me an outlet to worship God for the wonderful place He has given me to live. So, for that reason I really do enjoy it. Same with Veteran’s Day (thanking God for their service) and Mother’s/Father’s Day (thanking God for my own and praying for his wisdom in my own parental skills—or lack thereof : ) ).
Good Question!
In my opinion, acknoweldgement is a whole different ball game than planning an entire service around a particular celebration. I like the acknowledgement.
In my church (I’m Lutheran), we have a “prayer/forgiveness of sins” after the sermon. During these holiday’s one of the many prayers is usually focused on that….4th of July = prayer for servicemen/women; Mother’s Day = prayer for mom’s, etc.
Kelley’s last blog post..
Pete – saw this on FB and couldn’t resist. While I agree with most of the commenters here about mixing God and politics, there is a great book by Thomas Cahill called “The Gifts of the Jews” that talks about Abraham setting out into the wilderness being the beginning of the world view of free will/self determination which ties in nicely around the 4th. Just a thought.
Hmmm…while I don’t think celebrating Mother’s Day or Father’s Day is integral in a church service (and to be quite honest, because of a long battle with infertility my husband and I avoid service those days – it is easier than to have everyone wish me a happy Mother’s Day and try to hand me a carnation – if I say something they are uncomfortable and if I don’t I am miserable so I choose avoidance) but in regards to Independence Day, I think there should be some recognition of the history of this great country. Most people recognize the two most non-Christian signers of the Declaration of Independence, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, yet have no clue of the role Christianity played in the majority of the men who signed that document. Most of the signers had seminary degrees! We come from a rich heritage of Christian men and yet, sadly, we have no clue.
If we did in some way honor and recognize the role our faith played in the establishment of this country, maybe those who dwell in the pews today would pay more of an interest in how quickly our rights as Christians to live our faith are being eroded. God was in the founding of this country and we should recognize and honor that.
Shalom,
Denise
Denise’s last blog post..A Holy Transformation
I believe Cross Point is going in the right direction. Christmas and Easter are the only obligations, and I don’t believe churches should be coming out on July 4th or New Years and celebrating those holidays.
I’m even iffy about Easter and Christmas, in my opinion… Easter is actually a pagan holiday that was called Christian in the time of Constantine. You can read more on my earlier post (Easter: Pagan and Christian?).
If you read the post, I will say that Easter should not be celebrated, but “Resurrection Day” should be…
As for July 4th, I could spill a lot of peoples beans with this one. Politics in the christian realm has gotten WAY out of hands. We are seen more by what we think about politics then what Jesus spoke about. War, abortion, homosexuality, the founders faith, etc… I would rather not speak so directly on here about my beliefs, but I am non-violent and silent in my political beliefs, and where I pledge my allegiance is where my heart is. I am with God, my heart is with God, and will always be, that is all I will say.
Waving an American flag in church and pledging allegiance to America doesn’t sound like what Jesus had in mind. Lets pledge allegiance to the Kingdom of God, and leave the rest to God.
Stephen
Stephen Stonestreet’s last blog post..A silenced foundation – CFO
Like others, I think it’s neither good or bad, but holidays can present an opportunity to reach and interact with community that you don’t have on regular, “boring” days.
By having special events the church can expand its reach, bringing people on campus and interacting with church folk without getting “beaten up with tracts, etc.!”
These events create additional potential points of contact with unchurched, formerly churched, and new-to-the-area folks.
Churches should select the holidays carefully, to be sure. Groundhog’s Day may not lend itself to outreach, but Mother’s, /Father’s, Memorial,and Veteran’s Days, along with the 4th of July, help put a different kind of face on the Church. One that is not perceived as judgmental, condemning, aloof, and non-relevant (views often possessed by those who do not attend).
Our OBLIGATIONS are Christmas & Easter (as mentioned above).
The others are our OPPORTUNTIES!
Buddy
I knew I freaking loved your church. I got into a huge discussion / civil argument with the church I used to work at in Alpharetta, GA regarding their extreme highlight of July 4th where as the worship music was replaced with “American heritage songs.” I got the reputation after the first year of “hating America” and “July 4th service being Andy’s least favorite Sunday” – but it was all in good fun.
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Worship shouldn’t be about a holiday or a nation. It is about God and a Kingdom. While our nation celebrated national freedom on July 4, the following Sunday we are reminded as the Body of Christ that true freedom only comes when we are yoked and held captive to and by Christ.
I think churches should be mindful of holidays but I’m big on the seperation of church and state. The point of going to church, at least for me, is to not be part of secular society in many aspects so as long as celebration stays Christ centered it’s cool with me.
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None. There is no nationalism requirement in Christianity. There no Jewish or Roman nationalism requirement found in the NT. In fact, quite the opposite.
How much patriotism CAN there be? That is a different question. If a celebration of Independence on the 4th is seasoned with a celebration of the nations as part of the culture of the congregation, then it does not smack of a celebration of imperialism. If it part of a long string of pro-american and nationalistic overtures, then I would say it is immoral.
Jesus was no respecter of Rome, even though God heaped all sorts of wealth and power on it. Are we any different? God is not impressed by America.
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I have been struggling SO very much with this question. My fiancee is a newly appointed pastor (this is his second week on the job actually). The church is a small country parish–wonderful people! The woman in the church that changes the marquee changed it this past Friday to say “God Bless America.” My fiancee and I had been talking about what we thought about other churches posting this political statement or nice convergence of “Church and State” just earlier in the day and past the church in the afternoon with shocked faces.
My fiance had carefully prepared a sermon surrounding the idea of the “Freedom to Witness” that we as humanity are blessed to have because of the grace of God–how the freedom we have as a ‘people’ comes a with responsibility to all of the world.
It’s not tough at all to me. Statements like that and patriotic music in worship are divisive barriers for some and I think we have a responsibility to do all we can to tear down those barriers. I kept imagining a woman of another nationality passing by the church and thinking “What about MY nation?”
The marquee didn’t change and he was unaware of the music that was to come that Sunday morning. I myself felt very uncomfortable–unable to find my worship heart because I felt so distracted. I think there are problems with that.
No, I don’t think church is the place for it.
Pete, this is your finest post to date. National identity versus identity in Christ.
I likewise support the founders’ principle of separation of church and state…as it would only serve to de-value the “church” over time. All state-sponsored churches in history tend to become agents of the state–serving the body politic and their whims–not authentic church communities seeking to serve God. But, the founders of the United States of America clearly believed in a Creator. I re-read the Declaration of Independence this weekend and was in awe of the wonderfully radical notion that all individuals possess inherent value and should be awarded the liberty of self-government (not a monarchy). “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
I think the original American vision was revolutionary and fairly simple. The state will stay out of the affairs of faith and will allow the churches and other traditional institutions to provide a moral compass and maintain a Civil Society. As Christ-followers, I think that we should formally recognize how fortunate it is that we can freely assemble in this country without persecution. That is not a universal right around the world. However, I do not believe the church needs to necessarily be an instrument of American nationalism.
I was fortunate to be in Coimbatore, India during their Independence Day, August 15th 2008. It was a Friday and it is a national holiday. In India, the work week (for white and blue collar workers) is six days long. Their independence from Britain is much more recent and is something that they cherish. They celebrated in a glorious way. They had a one-hour ceremony in the front of the hospital with dancing, songs and a beautiful speech. Then, everyone cheerfully went back to work and served one another in their free society. Contrast that to my experience here in St. Louis last weekend. The 4th of July is on a Saturday. Since the holiday falls on a weekend, all hospital employees were given Friday, July 3rd as an additional day off. There was no reflective ceremony, just skeleton crews to serve others.
There are many other examples. During Martin Luther King Jr Day, my Monday afternoon surgical clinic for the uninsured/indigent population was cancelled, as an official observance. I briefly protested stating that I found it an odd way to celebrate the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King…by not serving the poor. Nowhere is it more evident than in our VA hospitals. There are federal holidays that I never heard of, all of them resulting in the closing of clinics. So, we celebrate Veterans and Memorial Day, by shutting down the clinics that serve veterans.
In short, I do not care if we sing a patriotic song in church. It doesn’t offend me, nor do I expect it to be included. What frightens me as an American citizen is how we are falling in to the pattern of a coddled free society that has forgotten how incredibly revolutionary and precious this experiment in “American democracy” is. We are more concerned with days off of work, binge-drinking and fireworks than we are about reflecting and preserving our liberty, that was earned by bloodshed over 200 years ago.
While I disagree with the overly simplified examples provided by @Christine Sine, she makes a valid point. HUBRIS (not to be confused with humble pride) by American citizens can force citizens of other nations to be resentful and angry. Conversely, the HUBRIS of Christians often serves as the primary barrier between seekers and a life-saving relationship with Jesus Christ.
Although the sole focus of church should be God, implementing current events and close holidays into the services make church more relevant to our lives. There’s no right or wrong way in implementing holidays to church services, but I think that focusing some on what’s happening in people’s lives will allow people to get more out of church.
@Nate VZ, Holy cow! Dang I’m inspired. Seriousl dude, that was incredible. Thanks for sharing with us.
Anyone who wants an in-depth read on this theme should read Greg Boyd’s “Myth of a Christian Nation.” It’s not anti-America or anti-patriotism, but it does point out that our citizenship as believers is in the kingdom of God, not the “best version” of the kingdom of the world. As thankful as we may be for the latter, we can never mistake it as being the same thing as the former.
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We showed a brief video at the end of service. Jeff talked about freedom in Christ. Not overtly patriotic.
But I shopped some white sales after church, so I feel I’ve done my part.
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I grew up attending a church who for the past 14 years has dedicated an entire sunday to its annual “patriotic” service and I have to tell you, some would say it has more of an impact on evangelizing and bringing in the “non-churched” that Easter or Christmas services combined. I’ve seen grown men bawl during these services, and people come to be members of the church and ultimately followers of Christ BECAUSE of these services.
Isnt that what the church is all about? Evangelizing and finding ways to open the doors to people who dont know Christ? I have to tell you, despite what your view is on the “separation of church and state”, isnt this our mission as churches and as Christians? To be “fishers of men?”
I am confident that by not having a dedicated service to the 4th of July, that you are doing more harm than good with evangelizing and opening your doors to more people. Do you think that by having a dedicated service you would actually LOSE current members?
So the question would be, if this could bring more people into our church, and ultimately more to Christ, why would you NOT be doing it?
I attend a fairly large church just north of Nashville and in the past our church has done a big blowout (not quite the scope of Cornerstone) but on Friday or Saturday, with food, games etc. either before or after the big choir presentation. I’ve always thought that this was an effective community outreach as it was very well done and the Gospel was presented in a non-threatening but clear way.
This year the patriotic celebration (on a MUCH smaller scale) was incorporated into Sunday morning services and it did make me uncomfortable – I think they were careful with the song selection, but I felt it was more “scripted” than usual
While this may not get noticed at the bottom of so many comments, I’ll acknowledge I’ve come from churches that mandated both a U.S. flag and Christian flag in the sanctuary, which nudges dangerously close, in my opinion, to church-and-state union, as opposed to how Christians influence their surrounding society. And if the July 4th, what of Memorial Day and Labor Day as well? As one with several military family connections, I’m content to recognize those in the military, living or deceased, and, yes, wear a bit of red, white and blue, but I quickly admit that God’s Kingdom and America are not the same, one is actually to invade the other, something I can quickly forget amidst my gratitude to live in a free country.
some ‘Christians’ were angry at our church for not having a memorial service for MJ.
I was going to comment, but people have made all kinds of great, valid points. I think to be culturally relevant, you need to mention the 4th of July. But the church is a place to celebrate freedom in Christ. I’m an American and very proud, but I’m more proud of being a part of the Kingdom of God. That’s eternal, America is not.
And @er – WOW! That’s funny.
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This has been so interesting to read as someone living in Scotland. I was so surprised at the responses given – it’s probably no secret that there is a stereotyped view of US citizens which would have them all as unquestioningly patriotic, happily conflating what it means to be American and what it means to be a Christian (and there is a stereotype of a Christian in the US too). Of course, I very much doubt anyone outside the US would buy the stereotype, but the kind of answers given here would blow it out of the water once and for all! I have some difficulty with some aspects of what has been said though: “America is unique because we can change the direction of the country, we can have a say.”(can’t remember who said it now) – clearly America is not unique in this respect, and there is also sadly a marked difference between what those of us who live in democracies can do and what we actually do in terms of exercising our rights and responsibilities in ‘having a say’. Anyway, just to say finally that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free…if God has taken away false divisions of nationhood and status we need to be very very careful about bolstering up the labels and walls we are so happy to fill our world with.
Finally, finally. I read something recently (can’t remember where, it could even have been here!) that challenged the notion of asking for God’s blessing on people or places. It issued a call, a challenge, for us to change our prayers so that instead we ask to become the blessing.
So, not God Bless America, but may America become a blessing to the world…(insert other names as appropriate, specify the nature of the blessing if possible…)
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At church the choir sang like a 10 minute song about america. it was crazy long.
haha
just thought i’d share that
@Daniel, I think that’s a fair questions. However, I think each community of faith should pray through how they want to reach out to the community. While some may use patriotic services others might use a community outreach, while others may host a huge fall festival.
@Pete Wilson. Glad you liked my manifesto. With Holly and the girls out of town I had a little more time to record my thoughts. How is the technorati going?
The church is here to serve, those who are members and those who happen to walk through the door. It does more good than we (civilians) know to recognize those who have served our country in the Armed Forces. An entire service around the day is a bit much in my opinion, but since my dad spent his life in the Navy after coming home from Vietnam, I know how it makes him feel for the pastor to express gratitude for what our nations soldiers have done. If we acknowledge that they are leaving, and we are praying for them while they are gone, then we should remember those that make it home.
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This is a question I’ve pondered (although not in the service planning sense). At the deepest level, our allegiance is not to our country. If push comes to shove, I’m choosing my God over my country. So the intertwining of a worship service with patriotism is a very tricky display. Especially with the attempts in our society to politicize religion.
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I think it totally depends on the church.
No right or wrong here (as I see it). The “powers that be” in a church usually have their finger on the pulse of the people and do what they think best.
But really, you can’t make everyone happy…no matter what.
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At my last church, they would have the vets, mothers, fathers, etc stand at the end of the service and recognize them with applause or with a rose/carnation or something. It was nice. The service wasn’t built around it, but it was nice to acknowledge those groups of people. However, 4th of July was never one of those dates. They did however, have a 4th of July church picnic.
I really think churches should show more patriotism. I’m not saying a full on event for 4th of July but it seems alot of churches try to avoid talking about things going on in America right now because it raises alot of controversy. I think this nation is where it is today because to many people have left God out of everything. I live in California and think things for us are even worse because so many people have shut God out of everything in their lives.
This was read at our service on Sunday the day after 4th of July. These words seem to be more true than ever…
Don’t you remember that on June, 28th 1787 in Philadelphia at the Constitutional Convention- The delegates were arguing and complaining and the united states seemed to be coming apart (as it is now) at the seems until the aged, statesmen Benjamin Franklin said…
“Have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, sir, a long time: and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that and empire can rise without his aid?
People go to church on Sundays to “worship”, but the other six days you would never know them to be God fearing men, women, and children by their shameful actions. I agree church should have the Sunday closest to or on the Fourth of July if it’s Sunday, and for that fact other holidays not to praise the holiday because only God who is Jesus must be the only one who gets our praise, but to use these holidays to thank God who is Jesus for giving us this nation AND for us present Americans to thank God who is Jesus for deciding to allow us to be born in America and not some middle eastern nation where women have no rights and there is no free speech. In these nations you either are shot, decapitated, your tongue is cut off, tortured, government sanctioned rape of women and children. But then why treat these holidays the same way we treat Church “Ok, I did my worshiping for the week, now that Sundays over I can now go back to cursing God who is Jesus (taking the Lords name in vain), cursing humans, alcoholism, junkyism, cheating on my wife/husband, molesting children, stealing, lying, bearing false witness, murdering, working on the sabbath, having other gods (money, sports, tv, computers, Hollywood, etc.),and coveting”. Should we have “a day” to celebrate these holidays only to say when it’s over “few!, I am glad this day is over with! I am tired!”, and we go happily back to our unpatriotic ways for the next 364 days? We did our patriotism for the year? We did our thanking (Thanksgiving) for the year?, just like we did our worship of God who is Jesus for the week? We spend most of our time worshiping our everyday life. This is how it breaks down: 52 days for God, 313 days for the world (but this figure is actually higher because many Christians go back to their wicked godless living when the morning service ends, so they don’t wait for Monday. They don’t even go to the evening services). Of these 313 days, 30 days are spent worshiping Santa Clause, but this number is higher because I can probably go into any Christian church and hear Christians praise God who is Jesus for 45 minutes to an hour, and when the Pastor is finished, the first thing out of their mouths is “oh! I have to go because there is a sale at (you put the store name in) for christmas decorations and I still have a lot to do before Santas arrival!” FELLOW CHRISTIANS: WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO PREPARE FOR CHRISTS ARRIVAL? Don’t say “well I went to church!” All I have to say to that is “whoop-di-doo! How about making your life a living testimony for Christ who is God? Why say “I did my duty on Sunday morning!”, but dedicate your life full time plus overtime to the world? Live EACH DAY of YOUR LIFE for Christ who is God. I know I for one need to do this. If all us Christians would take “THE STAND” and say “ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I am not going to live this way anymore!”, and teach our children about God, right and not wrong through words AND EXAMPLE (yes we need to practice what we preach 100% of the time). This world would not be so godless. Instead of criticizing others actions, ask yourself “what can I do to intervene in this persons life to steer them onto the right path?” Simply the way people see YOU living your life will influence them to make the right decisions. My opinion concerning holidays is at church they should be spent thanking Jesus who is God for blessing us with them and there benefits. Other than that, Thanksgiving to Jesus who is God must be practiced everyday. Why thank God who is Jesus only one day per year? Patriotism must be everyday. We must be thanking Jesus who is God everyday. If we continue to have a “ho-hum” attitude toward God and thanking Him for blessing us with America, we will one day wake up and find ourselves living in a godless, anti-American nation. As I see it, we are almost there when even us Christians won’t live for God who is Jesus, and when people can now wear the American flag as clothing. This use to be illegal to desecrate the American flag into a bra, boxers, coat, hat, etc. It’s ok now to disrespect the American flag according to the Supreme Court overturning the law, and our elected officials think it’s patriotic. Is it patriotic to chop up the American flag to cover your privates? I remember not too long ago a story involving the Mexican flag being desecrated (it wasn’t in Mexico) and the Mexican government had a hissy fit and the government of the nation it took place in was apologetic to Mexico and Mexicos people. We are the only nation that I know of that does not respect it’s flag, and so of course, why would any other nation respect our flag? Christmas is for celebrating and thanking God for coming down as Jesus to die for our sins. Some fat fable with a white beard and dressed in red and white did not die for YOUR SINS! Also, THERE IS NO TOOTH FAIRY! Why do we Christians think it’s “cute” when “WE” LIE to our children by telling them that Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, and whatever other lie we think is “cute” is real, but we don’t want to have this same dedication to telling our children about Jesus who is God! THERE IS NO EASTER BUNNY! Jesus who is God DIED FOR YOUR SINS! AND SOME PERSON RUNNING AROUND IN A RABBIT SUIT (MADE IN CHINA) WHILE PASSING OUT PLASTIC EGGS (MADE IN CHINA) FILLED WITH LEAD FILLED CHOCOLATES (MADE IN CHINA) WILL NOT GET YOU NOR ME INTO HEAVEN! INSTEAD IT WILL BE THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION TO HEAVEN! That’s where all people who have false gods go, according to God who is Jesus in the Holy Bible (KJV). Hopefully, we all, including myself, will take “THE STAND” before it is too late.
Also, one last thing: my opinion is that if you refuse to put your right hand over your heart to show respect to the flag, you are UNpatriotic. At church this past Sunday, I was beyond disbelief about how many Americans showed disrespect to the flag, and we have veterans in our congregation. Why worry about the Muslims, China, Korea, and any other nation as a threat when WE AMERICANS hate OUR own nation and it’s freedoms? Why would any other nation waste money to invade us when they can do it for free simply by waiting for US to invade (destroy) ourselves, then they can come in and take over after we did all the work for them? Something to think about.
Bob Hyatt’s article on this is classic, prophetic..and cost his job:
http://www.opensourcetheology.net/node/391
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Last week my wife and I went to a church to present our mission plans in Europe. Sunday school was about US politics and then we sang patriotic songs. I began to think we came on the wrong day because we were going to tell them about Germany. Oh yeah, didn’t we just have a war with them 60 years ago?
It seems in America that one can’t be just a Christian, they must also be a republican (nothing wrong with being republican). Paul practiced his Roman citizenship when it seemed to help him but his heart was 100% Jesus’.
Who are we? Americans or Christians? I am both but my allegiance belongs to Christ Jesus.
I find if I focus too much on America and it’s politics I lose focus of Jesus. But that is just me.
I am thankful for our vets and what they have done for us but I am so much more thankful for what Jesus has done for me.
Church is about God, not US national holidays.
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Wow. I have to say that I’m impressed by the amount of thought that has gone into these posts. I can only hope that my non-American perspective can add something to the conversation.
Nate VZ’s post captured much of what I would say if I was writing a love letter from Canadian Christians to American Christians. One of the things about being blessed to live in a rich country is that we need to be sure our comfort doesn’t become the thing we chase after most. But as general as Christine Sine’s comments might be, it’s a mistake to dismiss them as coming from a resentful foreigner.
As a Canadian, it can be refreshing to see the patriotism Americans show, because for many it stems from a sincere gratefulness to God for the blessings they’ve been given. But I would caution you to avoid statements like ‘the greatest country in the world’. I say this not because of the problems that exist in America, but because there is no way to make that judgement.
America may be the place in which you meet God, but it is nothing more than a place. God is present in the slums of Mumbai just as he is in the country clubs of Arlington. He created the world and everything in it, and there is no place that he favours more than another. (That’s right, I spelled favours Canadian style!)
In God there is “neither male nor female, slave nor free, Greek nor Jew”. (I might humbly suggest that in God there is also neither rich nor poor.) As a Canadian trying to become more like God, I need to work towards not seeing world as “Canadian and not Canadian”. Yes, God is for the Canadians and the Americans, but he is also for the Brazilians, Cambodians, Iranians, Mongolians, etc. To live like God is to not celebrate that distinction, but rather to celebrate our shared relationship with God.
My final thought is this: as we thank God for the things he has given us (Canadians on July 1, Americans on July 4, French on July 14, etc.), let’s remember that he does not distinguish between us. Rather than become upset with those who we perceive as not showing enough respect for veterans, let us instead look for the groups that we don’t show enough respect for and fix that problem. After all, we are free to do so.