The other day Katdish pointed me to THIS BLOG which had a very interesting topic. The topic was poverty and viral marketing.
You were pointed to THIS SITE entitled “Pimp this Bum” where you could choose to financially help Tim, a homeless man.
I’ve been debating this in my head for a few days now. Is this helpful or exploitive?
Most of you know I have a real passion for the under resourced. I want to help men, women and children who are less fortunate. I also know our world is constantly changing. Our methods for taking care of and providing for people in need will change over time.
I’m all for trying new things to bring attention to a cause, but do you think this one crosses a line?
I would love to hear your thoughts…helpful or exploitive?
I went to this site the day you twittered it…..my immediate thought was that it was exploitive….it robbed that human of his dignity. While someone in marketing may have thought it was a clever marketing trick I couldn’t help but wonder if an individual in marketing who thought their talents were worth their weight could have come up with something more graceful to help and take the high road instead of the low road which is often easier but less appropriate or thoughtful of another human being.
Once I saw GQ magazine and a blackberry Bold on his wish list I left. What a joke!
This is so unbelievably strange, I don’t even know what to say about it. How is this actually helping this guy get back on his feet?
I think that it exploits not only the homeless but, also those willing to help the homeless. It is a slap in the face to those who humbly work to help the homeless. Pete, I think you stated it best the other day when you quoted from Ephesians 4:29:
“Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.”
I don’t think that what these people are saying is doing anything to build anyone up.
Ben
Is this a joke? If the blogger really wanted to help him, why offer up donations for sharpies and lazer hair removal? Instead put it all toward the education part! Also, why a semester at a university, why not a class at a tech college, where he could learn a skill faster and get off the streets! I’m skeptical.
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Ok, let me ask you guys this. If you took off the silly items like the phone, GQ magazine and gym membership do you think it would be any different.
I’m just trying to think through this from all the angles.
No, I still think that they would be making a mockery of those who help the homeless. The name of the site is insulting enough. If these people profess to be Christians, do you think they offer an accurate reflection of what a Christian is to someone who is unchurched and reading their website? I don’t think I want to be lumped in w/ such people. I will pray for them that they may see the errors of their ways.
Ben
I need to think more about the site overall but I just wanted to say I’m not sure why we are debating the items list. They say upfront that it is tongue in cheek. It isn’t actually directed funding. In other words, it is just more marketing on their part and not particularly relevant to evaluating the site. Why are we discussing or critiquing that?
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How can it be exploiting him? He chose to hold the sign. And smile. It’s not like someone was forcing him.
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Tim and the two guys who started the website were on FoxNews this morning. They pay the guy $100 a day for holding up the sign. He didn’t seem to feel exploited. They all seemed pretty decent to me. The two guys arranged for Tim to go to an alcohol treatment center soon to help him combat alcoholism. Tim mentioned this was the number one problem for homeless men.
When I saw footlong sub or sandwich $5 I immediately thought, I would TOTALLY give $5 if I knew this guy was going to get the nourishment, but then when you get down to the iPod you are just pissed that they are making such light of such a REAL situation. Why doesn’t a shelter see this and take the man in and get him HELP and a job and food?? I don’t 100% disagree in their efforts but I think there are much better ways to use their energy and resources to help this man. For the cost of the website maintenance/build, etc. they could probably house the guy for a month and feed him.
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@Chris, great point. I totally missed that on the website. I assumed it was a joke but didn’t see the disclaimer.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I have quite mixed emotions about this-of course line-crossing questions never produce easy answers in my mind.
For one, I think the “Wish List” thing was a tongue in cheek way of reminding people that often society tries to “help” those on the street with things that they can’t use. Remember the victims of the tsunami who lost everything but their lives and some well-intentioned U.S. Midwesterners packed up boxes of sweaters to meet the need? Woolen sweaters in Indonesia! And there are always items donated in food drives which are not practical because they cannot be easily opened, easily cooked, or eaten in one sitting (unless the recipient has a large group of co-diners or usually unavailable refrigeration after the items are opened.)
Maybe the point in listing things such as an Ipod Mini and a Blackberry Bold is to simply remind us of the difference of wants and needs–a difference which the homeless seem much more able to articulate than those of us who live in different worlds. Maybe the point in listing things such as the Wall Street Journal and GQ and only 2 semesters of education is to highlight the way in which we so often pat ourselves on the back for having “helped” the homeless through giving something without asking ourselves whether we are giving something that will matter. (I recently heard a sermon by Jaque Sullivan, copastor of an innercity church in St. Paul, MN in which she stated that handouts often hurt the needy more than help them. She went on to say what is truly needed is arduous mentorship and side-by-side living helping people to annihilate a devastating welfare mentality which shackles much of inner city America.)
The things on the Wish List are items which are either hinting at our prejudices about the homeless or are poking (serious) fun at our inability to relate.
Second, I really appreciated the questions asked by the interviewer. We ought to spend more time trying to understand the lives of the homeless, their struggles, and their ultimate desires rather than going in to minister to them without a clearcut idea of what they need and what they want. All the help in the world will not get someone off the street if they want that lifestyle. All the job offers in the world will not be of benefit to someone who is too mentally ill to maintain employment or someone who, for whatever reason, enjoys street living. We need to ask more questions to understand PEOPLE before we formulate answers through our PROJECTS.
Third, I do not appreciate the evolution of the word “pimp.” A pimp is a user who benefits from the sacrifice and suffering of others–I cannot use the word to mean “renovate or transform” and find the use of it as such to be offensive. I think the designers of this “experiment” might have chosen words less controversial words unless they were intentionally trying to provoke. And is that bad? Jesus used some provocative language when He walked this earth. Of course, Jesus is God and we are human and prone to sin.
Finally, I am amazed by the power of technology to connect people, to inspire debate, and to bring glory to God. I view technology as a neutral tool which can be used for good or for harm. I believe that God can use even evil for His own good.
I am also reminded of what Paul said in Philippians 1:18–”The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.” Whether the pimpthebum website has been motivated and created by sincere love or not, it has gotten God’s people talking and thinking and acting. In the end, Christ is preached. And, even flooded with mixed emotions, I rejoice.
Mercy. Where is the mercy? I didn’t notice any mercy in the picture on the website, or in comments made on blogs by the people who run this site.
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@ttm, You said, “Maybe the point in listing things such as an Ipod Mini and a Blackberry Bold is to simply remind us of the difference of wants and needs–a difference which the homeless seem much more able to articulate than those of us who live in different worlds.”
Wow. If that was their intention (and I’m not saying it was) than it was brilliant.
Maybe we needed to see those items listed to remind us just how silly many of the things we invest in are.
I saw this from another source a few weeks ago.
At first I thought it to be exploitive but the more I thought about it the less exploitive I felt it to be.
I see it more as a business arrangement, maybe not a good one, but one never the less. At this moment both parties seem to be happy with the arrangement.
To me this isn’t any more exploitive then the stereotypical church mission that requires you to attend Bible study or a church service to get a meal.
While I saw some of the items as silly, the gym membership intrigued me.
The way I see it is if you had a gym membership you would have a place to shower everyday if you were homeless. Just having a place to get clean would give you a big boost toward getting off the street.
Honestly, I don’t know.
There are a lot of unknowns.
Is the homeless man actually receiving the money? Is it a big scam? Etc…Etc…Etc..
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Pete,
Thank you so much for bringing attention to this issue. I wish I could tell you that I am not conflicted about this, but in all honesty I can tell you that the more I delve into it, the more conflicted I become. One thing is certain – it is a topic that is worthy of debate. (To me, anyway.)
I have been communicating with the principals of this company via email (mostly the father). He professes to be a devout Christian. He also assures me that they are getting Tim some much needed social services (as an earlier comment indicates). I suppose what I struggle with (besides the obvious) is the fact that, while I don’t feel the need to take credit for helping Tim and the other men who camp out under that overpass, one of the comments left on Jeff’s blog from Sean (the son), to me, suggests that our efforts to help them were ineffective, when the reality is that they really don’t know anything about our efforts with these guys, nor the efforts of others who were helping them before anyone knew or much cared who they were. Add to this the reality that some of the other guys down there have pressing, immediate needs and problems to which there are no easy solutions. The only thing that I am not conflicted about is our determination as a church NOT to abandon these men, regardless of the ultimate success or failure of the viral marketing experiment. We don’t have the resources that this agency has, but I really feel that God has lead us into relationships with these men. I would greatly appreciate prayer for all involved in this, including the marketing guys. Thanks again, Pete. You rock like Amadeus! (But don’t get the big head about it.)
katdish’s last blog post..They forgot to mention a grocery cart and a new squeegee
Took a young man we’ve known most of his life into our home yesterday. He is 28 yrs. old, homeless, without any form of identification, no money and only the clothes on his back. For the life of me, we don’t know what we’re doing! We are trusting God with this one step at a time. My overall prayer is that he would come to know his Savior in a real & intimate way!
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand I’m all for using current technology to find new ways to help those who are hurting.
The basic concept behind this experiment is intriguing but the execution is a little demeaning.
I would love to see a church grab a hold of the concept and find a different way of doing the same thing.
One thing that was cool about this experiment is how it helped put a voice, name and story to the face of homelessness we see every day.
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I don’t think this is exploiting the individual – as another commenter said, he is holding the sign. So if he’s mentally fit (and I’m only saying that because many homeless, unfortunately, are not), then he’s made the choice and it’s not exploiting him.
But for some reason, this still makes me feel icky.
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Maybe this is doing some real good … who knows … but I wouldn’t give my money to this cause.
@Brad Ruggles, I’m with you. I would love to see this concept adapted and used to make a real difference for God’s glory.
As a marketing consultant, this is a topic that I have been dealing with on so many levels with clients lately! Not so much for this particular site – however this is such a great example to put in front of them to get them thinking.
Since social media marketing is so high on my radar in business, I am viewing this from a completely different point. I also am one who is truly passionate about helping people truly in need, but am skeptical of venues that seem too open or vulnerable.
All that said, I have to agree with Greg and Anne. This may not be the most tactful approach, but there is a business transaction going on. The homeless man has taken advantage of an opportunity while the “marketers” are showing what social media venues can do.
And in agreement with Becky, the “good” that is being done could be as simply put – it’s making ALL OF US THINK!!!! We’re thinking about new creative ways to better our world and do God’s work. I don’t find anything about that to be exploitive. This could be triggering even just one person’s change in direction – a change that could launch them into great things.
I honestly have no idea how I feel about this. I’ll have to think on it for a while.
@Kathy mentioned that they had a report on Fox about this, so I just thought I’d send you the link to be able to watch it for yourself. Maybe you’ll be even more conflicted after you see it like I was!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3695882&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/foxfriends/
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I don’t know. On one hand, when I first looked over the sight I thought it was exploiting the guy and his situation. Especially when you look at the options for things to purchase for him. I mean c’mon. A $500 Blacberry??!! Some of that is pretty rediculous. That money could be used for much more pratical things for him!
However, after watching the video I warmed up to the idea a little bit. He seems like a fairly intelligent guy just down on his luck who might actually get somewhere with the help, like he would actually like to get off the streets and make a better life for himself. A lot of homeless people might end up back in the same position, no matter how much people try to help them.
All that said, it still has the “odor” of a reality tv show. Some are good, like Extreme Home Makeover and the good that they do, but some are really bad and just nonsense. I know they say they aren’t making any profits from it, but it still smells a little bit fishy to me for some reason, and it kind of reminds me of that site a while back that had people donating money to save the life of a rabbit! Anybody remember that?!
I’m all for banding together and helping people like him, though. After all, Jesus commanded us to do so. Just not sure about that method.
I think the idea is fine. The execution is is a problem. “Pimp this bum” – seriously? What is that about? The question is how could we use the internet to emulate Christ and help get these folks off the street?
Someone on Twitter pointed out that all three (the father and son as well as the homeless man, Tim) were interviewed on Fox and Friends this morning. You can watch it from this link:
http://tinyurl.com/dyfket
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There are some great points raised here. I want to throw something else into the mix to consider: For those of you who have viewed the website, I don’t need to tell you that Tim, while a bit rough around the edges because of his time on the streets, is still well spoken and relatively well groomed. Having seen the other guys who “work” that corner, I can tell you that Tim is by far the least “road weary” of them all. Do you think that was intentional on the part of the marketers? If so, then does that make Tim more worthy of help? Even if I told you that there’s a guy that has pressing medical problems? What if the website was centered around some of the men featured in this video? How much does outward appearance affect our compassion for another human being? I’m not trying to be preachy, I only want to raise what I think is a valid point.
katdish’s last blog post..They forgot to mention a grocery cart and a new squeegee
Wow. What else can you say about this?
I really don’t know which way to lean…
All I can say is wow.
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I haven’t read all the comments, I never came to a conclusion in my own heart & mind what I think of this. However, the two men who came up with the site and Tim were on Fox & Friends First this morning (That’s EARLY morning, by the way). They talked about this very subject and concluded by saying that Celebrate Recovery out of Seattle was going to take him into a 5-week rehab for alcoholism.
This is a little all to weird because just this morning I was wondering how long it would take before we might see on-line soliciting. Wow! I do not even know how to respond. I am in a ministry that has to raise money every day to help meet needs of the world’s neediest people, but I am just not sure where to go with this. Bottom line… seek the Lord… no one is forcing anyone to give anything.
Saw this on Fox News this morning–so Pete, you beat the street on this news.
They interviewed the Homeless man and he seemed ok with it–and he seemed to be aware of how it seemed publicly. My gut tells me that there’s more to this than help. Just my gut–and after these years I’ve learn to trust my instincts.
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After seeing this on your twitter the other day, I also create a post about it.
I have been talking with friends and family about this for the past couple of days and truly believe that this could be a really great idea…
I know that I didn’t have any sort of scientific experiment going, but out of the people that I asked, almost all of them said that they would more likely give to the homeless if they could do it from the comfort of their living room via a credit card than cold, hard cash on the streets. Whether or not that fact is good is another topic, but I think it might be reality in a lot of peoples lives.
I see huge potential and can only hope that it doesn’t get used in the wrong ways. Until there is evidence (not assumptions) that it is being used in the wrong ways, I think it’s great.
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I didn’t read all the comments, but it seems that most people missed the comment at the top right of the page that said that all the items below (like the I Pod) were tounge-and-cheek, but 100% goes to Tim. So, the author of the website was just using his marketing skills to make it “cute”…he in no way was going to get those items. It’s like what we might want for ourselves, but surely not Tim. I think that the person that set this up was just trying to be creative in helping Tim and I think we should not put him down for his efforts. In fact, I would like to see a website with hundreds of homeless on it, and you could adopt a homeless person like Christian Children’s fund. They actually have an online wish list for them too, so is the CCF exploiting the children too? I think what threw people off is the fake “gifts” that the author put up…once you read the “tounge and cheek” message at the top, you can understand that he was just being creative….good for him!
Robin, I just twittered a similar opinion. I think that the part of the website most people have issues with is the title and the “creativity” of the site. If you change the name of the website, remove some of the “tongue-in-cheek-y-ness” it becomes a forward thinking website addressing the issues of the homeless in this country. I think it’s one of those things that only becomes offensive when someone tells you to be offended.
What is too salty for some may not be salty enough for others.
I have no problem with the words “pimp” and “bum”. If the man chooses to hold the sign, knowing what it says, then so be it.
If we’re going to get up in arms over the words then that conviction needs to spread into everyday life. The word “pimp” makes us draw in our breath. Yet when TV spurts “o my God”, over and over, do we leave the theater? (What of XXXChurch or Strip Church Vegas? Same shock value but sometimes shock is what we need.)
When I look at the list of items you can purchase for Tim it made me see irony. We’ll spend $4 on a burger and fries and forget about it as we swallow. What if people skipped the $4 meal for themselves, brown bagged it, and corporately gave the money to the homeless? Perhaps the site’s intent is to ask, “Would you be willing to give up a Blackberry for the sake of Tim?”
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Pete, thanks for bringing this conversation to your blog. I think Tim’s situation- and the method being used to present it- are things we need to wrestle with as Christ followers, and I appreciate everyone’s thoughts.
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I personally think that we as the church should be getting out there and helping the homeless or those down on their luck. Just sending money doesn’t seem to show the Love of Christ. Just my 2 cents!
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I guess we can’t judge their motives, but It doesn’t “feel” right to me. But if Tim and friends do indeed get help, well, then that’s more than they get when people just look away at something more pleasant.
If nothing else, it will draw attention to the plight of the homeless.
Maybe Tim will be used in ways far greater than he ever imagined in spite of marketing attempts that may be crooked.
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Sherri – I mostly agree with your comment with one notable exception. Tim is getting help. Tim’s friends are still working the overpass at Highway 6 and Interstate 10. They’re getting help, just not from the marketing firm.
katdish’s last blog post..They forgot to mention a grocery cart and a new squeegee
what “conflicts” me is that they market for money but money doesn’t solve homelessness. I love that they are getting him support for his alcoholism. that’s real help that will help get him off the streets. Why can’t the site be about raising funds and awareness for programs and networks that teach them and invest in them instead of throw the buck at the website. I didn’t word that right at all, my hands don’t type when my heart is jumbly like this
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@Jeff, thank you bro!
Hey guys, this new development is pretty cool. Of course it was on the Fox And Friends interview.
“BIG NEWS – Sunray Treatment and Recovery has stepped up to provide a scholarship for Tim’s Drug and Alcohol Treatment for a value of $13,800.00. Please view their website to learn more about them and give them a call if someone you love needs help with Alcohol or Drug Rehab.”
there’s just something a little uncomfortable about it for me.
Amy N’s last blog post..Better late than never.
Guys, I’m gonna wear this out, but after reading this page: http://www.ascendgence.com/pimpthisbum/aboutptb.aspx
I feel a lot better about what they’re doing and what their motives are. I highly recommend that you read it too.
Honestly, I thought it was plain out weird. Definitely NOT helpful in my opinion.
I look at this and it rips me in two, yeah it’s degrading. But frankly if you’re in dire straits, who cares what dance you have to do to get the meal, you’ll be happy to have something to eat, we look at the homeless in our culture and we don’t see men like this for what they are, they are people dying of a disease. Is it the most tactful way of going about getting treatment for him? Probably not, but it does an effective job of grabbing attention and forcing people to notice the men and women who we try so hard to ignore.
Okay, Steve. I just went checked the link and frankly I’m PISSED OFF! They are carefully wording their explanation of what they are doing based on complaints they are getting via email. I wanted to post my correspondence with them on my blog, but my husband strongly advised against it because there is some expectation of privacy. I agree with that. But I don’t like them rewording their explanations based on what they think people want to hear. Here’s what their website says: “Some of these people are in a pit so deep that even if they want out they simply can’t do it on their own.” And here’s what they wrote to me before I raked them over the coals about it: “These people are so far down in a pit of desperation that there is no dignity to take away from them.” That is a direct quote. Semantics? Judge for yourself. And just for the record, it’s not like help was never extended to them. It was and continues to be offered and accepted. Just not the kind of help that gives you an opportunity to make drastic changes in your life with relatively no effort of your own and gigs on Fox & Friends, Rachael Ray, Letterman and Leno. Which offer would you take?
I really need to step away from this entire mess, take a deep breath and continue to pray about it.
P. S. – This is not directed at Steve, just a general angry rant.
katdish’s last blog post..They forgot to mention a grocery cart and a new squeegee
I hear ya katdish. I guess it just doesn’t strike me that way now. Of course, I’m still a little bit skeptical, but not like I was before reading that page. I see your point in a way, but I also recognize the fact that it takes a village to help people sometimes and what these people usually get is just the crumbs from that village. It’s got be extremely difficult, time consuming, and expensive to give these people the kind of attention they need to truly get the help to crawl out of that pit. You read and hear that homeless shelters and programs barely have enough help or funds to operate the way they do and to just give people the temporary means to even survive. As Tim says, “how do you pull yourself up by your bootstraps if you don’t have any?”. It seems that these guys are sincere and I guess we’ll see how it works out for Tim and what kind of effect this program has for the homeless in general. If anything, it’s raising awareness of a problem that most people would rather never have to think about.
I’m sorry…I thought I was finished ranting, but clearly I am not. I grew up in Houston and now live in Katy. Based on where Sean went to school, I know the neighborhood where they live. I also know it is most probable that both of these men have driven by the very spot where Tim and his friends have been camped out for months. I find it ironic that it only occurred to them that Tim needed to be saved from the streets when it happened to coinicide with their latest and greatest publicity stunt. I also find it telling that in a small town known for its large number of churches, one in particular located very close to Tim’s location that happens to be one of the largest Baptist churches in the country, that one of Tim’s friends expressed that the only people that offered anything more than small donations of food and other essensials happen to belong to 2 very small church plants who do not have the large budgets that many of the large congregations that literally circle the underpass where these guys are located have. I will more than likely regret making this comment tomorrow like that last shot of tequila from days gone by, but what I am NOT hearing from many is the fact that you actually have to be willing to die to yourself a little and develop relationships with people who are in very dangerous situations. As my friend Dorothea said on Jeff’s blog, if you think throwing money at people in desperate situations will save them, then I invite you to throw a million dollars into a crowd and see what kind of results you get. I think that Tim has been afforded a great opportunity to turn his life around, and I will be grateful to this firm and will sing their praises if Tim turns out to be a success, whatever that means to him. I am praying that will be the case. But I am also faced with the reality that there is still a large community of homeless people surrounded on all sides by people who pretend they are not there. Not everyone is called to this ministry, but I find it offensive to suggest that the efforts of my church and others have had no effect on the lives of these men and the people that chose to follow God’s calling and attempt to be the hands and feet of Jesus. Tim is not the only person we met under that bridge. There is another man whose story you do not know, nor will you likely ever know because recognition from men is not why we chose to help them in the first place. But his is a much more difficult path, and he has and will continue to make some very difficult life choices. That is just reality. What Tim is being offered, while noble, is a pipe dream for the hundreds of others still living in the streets or in abandoned, dangerous buildings.
End of rant.
katdish’s last blog post..They forgot to mention a grocery cart and a new squeegee
My feelings are,if he wanted to change he could do it. There are alot of sources available now for the homeless.
If He doesn’t do the work it isn’t going to be the same. He knows how much he would need to do what it is he needs to do, but is he changing that? No. Instead he’s holding up a sign, I think there is an exploitation situation happening, maybe good intentions were intended but it crossed a line. I also think “Tim” let it.
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I just visited the site and watched the video. While the marketing ploy may be a bit offensive for some, it doesn’t seem like exploitation. Not only is he all right with being videoed, he wants it. He wants to be helped. The whole “pimp this bum” idea just sounds like a funny, clever way to get this guy off the street. Hey, it’s worth a shot. I’ve seen much more exploitive things happening on Christian blogs where they video-tape poor people without ever talking to them. THAT’s exploitation – using someone for your own message without engaging in relationship with him or her.
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Amen, Jeff!! Whew, this has surely become a controversial topic!
The song that’s used when you first open the web page is called “What it’s like” by a group or guy named “Everlast”. The words that stick with me in the lyrics are “God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes ’cause then you really might know what it’s like to sing the blues. Then you really might know what it’s like.”
The prelude to that is “We’ve all seen the man at the liquor store beggin’ for your change. The hair on his face is dirty, dreadlocked and full of mange. He asks the man for what he could spare with shame in his eyes. Get a job you ****** slob’s all he replied.
How can we as Christians condemn Tim or any other homeless person for not being able to change or for not choosing to change (or the men who developed the idea for this, as well)? Again, “God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes ’cause then you really might know what it’s like”.
There is an clean, edited version of the song here with it’s great video (the unedited lyrics are pretty raw). Absolutely real life for many and heartbreaking:
http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/–2141632
The unedited raw lyrics are here (not that I condone some of the language in it, and I apologize for that in advance, but I think the overall song speaks volumes):
http://www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/everlast_lyrics_2371/whitey_ford_sings_the_blues_lyrics_6620/what_its_like_lyrics_78414.html
What some churches do or do not do for the homeless I think is really irrelvent in this case. This is not about churches, this is about the plight of the homeless.
I did not read all the other comments but after working 9 years with homeless and inner city individuals I have found that 99% do not want to change. That in fact they make anywhere from 30K to 50K a year in earnings that are never reported to the govt (for those new to this that’s more than what we make working w/ the homeless). It’s sad and it’s growing.
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30K to 50K a year ?! You’ve GOT to be kidding!! Surely that’s only a very small percentage of them.
Hmmm…I know I’m late commenting here and this will most likely be read by very few, but I have been following Jeff and Katdish’s posts.
I am disturbed by early comments thinking that Tim wanting a Blackberry or GQ magazine was such a joke. It may be…it may not, I don’t know Tim. But in my experience working with the homeless, they are people who like and enjoy the very same things you and I do. Just because they do not have a permanent home does not mean that they don’t enjoy luxuries as much as the next person. I mean, really, struggling to survive each day makes you want luxuries that much more. People get very tired of just making it through the day. Why should he set his sights low if someone asks what his true wants and desires are? Treating someone in poverty to something nice is not a waste. Just a thought.
Also, Angela, really? I have worked with those in poverty, the homeless, inner city as well. I do not know where you live, but in my experience, yes, I have met many who did not want to change, but I also met MANY who wanted to change and had such limited resources and experience that they had no way to see any culture BUT that of poverty and didn’t know the first step to get out of it. But the want was there. And I don’t know anyone in poverty making 30-50 K a year. Yeah, there’s drug money and such out there…but I never saw that as “income” at all. Is that what you mean? Even with my meager salary, families with drug addictions and others in trouble with the law still lived far below my standard of living.
So ends a long comment, but I’ll add that yes, those who are already working with the homeless desperately need church support in the way of money AND volunteers. And ask the experts in your area how to partner WITH them before you try any gimmicky internet marketing….
Beth’s last blog post..You Da Man
“And I don’t know anyone in poverty making 30-50 K a year”
Thank you for setting that straight Beth. You hear that there are those that panhandle during the day and then return to a decent home of their own at night. But those are the ones who I would say are doing the exploiting of the homeless. I don’t know much about the homeless or accurate statistics concerning them, but 99%?! C’mon! Rediculous and demeaning claim.
You have a good point about their wants and needs. I thought it was crazy that they would even offer those things on the website for people to buy for Tim, until I read further and realized it was merely to prove a point. Why wouldn’t they want the same things the rest of us want?! Just because they’re homeless doesn’t mean they can’t dream of a life like most of us have.
And yes, this thread has probably seen it’s better days!
Katdish,
“They’re getting help, just not from the marketing firm.”
I don’t know what you define as ‘help’, but so you know, SunRay has donated $13,800 for rehab, he has $1600 cash for medical, legal, counseling, and rent when he comes back. Free job training, and thousands of people all over the world from Japan, to Ethiopia, to Sweden, many of which speak with him most nights on the webcam.
If this isn’t ‘help’ . . .I anxiously await your definition.
And, thank you for those who are supporting this project. For anyone questioning how Tim or John or any of the guys feel about this . . . the following video might help clear things up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEoOAlsZacE
Sean,
You are right. I concede. Human compassion is okay for the movies, but everyone knows the only real way to help anyone is cold hard cash. Clearly you are a far better Christian than me and I’ll most likely spend an eternity in hell. I’m done with conversation.
Wow, cool. A comment by one THE men himself. Thanks for chiming in Sean! Good to hear your input.
Katdish,
Normally I would keep correspondence like this private, between personal emails. I am comfortable in making an exception as you initially brought our correspondence to the public. You have publicly challenged our motives here, and denied that we are helping Tim. . . so I am compelled to voice at least this much:
Katdish – - THIS ISN’T ABOUT YOU. This isn’t about me and my dad. It isn’t about who is more charitable, Christian, or American. Take a moment to notice that not one interview in any radio, print, or TV, have we mentioned our company’s name. We requested that they DO NOT mention our company’s name. We have noticed that those disapproving of our company are the very ones advertising for us the most. This is about the plight of the homeless and offering up an alternative to the conventional means of charity.
If we were exceptional bakers, we would have baked them food. If we were excellent fishermen, we would have taught them to fish. We are good at marketing, so this is how we contribute. You are a Christian woman who is very passionate about the homeless, and you contribute your unique way. Why do I feel like we are working against each other when we should be working together on this?
Why are so many on this forum (certainly not all) the first to cast stones at what we are doing, and so few are offering help, assistance or advice?
Yes we benefit from this. We learn how to recreated what we’ve done for Tim to apply to struggling charities and businesses. My father is out of a job, and if it wasn’t for a glitch in payroll from a former employer that sent him a check the other day (which he attributes to God) we would be in dire straits right now. We have not made a single dollar, and are paying every man for his time on camera and for their contribution to our efforts.
Katdish, I know that if we me met, I believe you would see this in a very different light. If you would be interested, please contact me: sean.dolan@ascendgence.com and I will give you my personal number.
Thanks everyone.
Tim’s helicopter… pretty convincing video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEoOAlsZacE
Thanks for posting it Sean. Godspeed on your endeavor to help the homeless.
Thank you for the kind words Steve. I really appreciate your support. On Friday, the Associated Press is running the story.
Thanks again.
Hey Sean, you are very welcome! If I wasn’t unemployed right now I would do what I could to help you guys out. Hopefully I’ll get a job soon and I’ll be able to then. I’ll definitely look for the article on the Internet on Friday, as I hope everyone else does, as well.
Steve
Why in the world does he HAVE to take treatment in Seattle? Local treatment centres or nearby ones would cost extremely less. Certainly don’t agree with this propostion at all, wouldn’t we all like to fly somewhere for a rest as well?
Umm, hmmm, could it be because the treatment center DONATING their services to him just HAPPENS to be in Seattle? Hmmm, yes, I think it could!
haha, thanks for taking that one Steve!
You’re welcome Sean! Hey, I can relate in a small way right now. As I write this I’m in Denver sitting in an awesome house on the side of a mountain in the foothills of the Rockies. Awesome scenery, peace and quiet, a MUCH more comfortable bed than I’m used to sleeping on in my “cell” back home, hiking and biking right out the front door, and all absolutely free for me!
I live in Nashville and my sister flew me out here to house and dog sit for her while she and her family vacation in Hawaii for a week. Great for me, great for them. I have been unable to find a job since being laid off a few months ago and was getting pretty stressed out sitting at home and feeling like I had no purpose anymore. Along comes my sister and offers this up to me and do you think I would turn it down?! I don’t think so! And neither should Tim have turned turn his offer of help from those great people in Seattle and from you and your dad! This was just what the doctor ordered for me and Seattle was just what the doctor ordered for Tim. And all taken care of by some very generous people. Now what, may I ask you, is wrong with any of that?! Not a darn thing.
I love that this thread is still alive. It reminds to keep checking back on you guys and to pray for Tim!
How about this, judge ye not, least ye be judged. Care, don’t care, if you don’t want to save just one person, go away, do something worth while to or for you. I would love to help each and every one of the homeless. I give them a dollar or more each time I see them, I never question myself or them of where they are spending it.
I would love to help each and every animal that is in a cage/shelter, sick, starving, whatever the case, my heart is big enough to want to help them all, but I can’t. You know what, I can help one, actually I have adopted all 6 of my animals, I will save one by one until I die. If I tried to save them all I would be helpless, but I can save one (or 6). As for a person/human being, maybe we can save one today, maybe one next month, or next year. Together we tried. It’s up to Tim to beat his addiction, it’s up to God if any of us survive another night. Today, I’m helping cause I can. I thank everyone that will help, even for a moment, just a smile or a kind word. You have no idea what is means, I DO.
Keep on keeping on Sean. Your a great guy. Just another day in paradise, keep smiling.
Here is a video of Tim reuniting with his family. . . very inspiring. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1414883