It’s Got To Stop!
I have been thinking about a post on the topic of criticizing one another and then I read THIS POST by Mark Batterson, pastor at National Community Church in D.C. that summed it up so well. My heart has been really heavy lately as I have watched Christians absolutely destroy one another. I just don’t get it. Mark said…
I think there are basically two kinds of people. People who are doing things and people who aren’t doing things, but they need something to do so they take potshots at people who are doing things.
There. I said it.
Come on, folks. Let’s be about the Father’s business.
In the words of Michelangelo: criticize by creating!
Can I be brutally honest?
The psychological tendency to try to feel better about ourselves by pointing out what’s wrong with someone else is immaturity at its worst. And no where is it more prevalent than the church
Now, I will be the first to say that I have displayed this kind of immaturity in the past. I have also been the recipient of my fair share of this kind of immaturity over the years and even more so lately. In the end, nobody wins. Nobody grows. Nobody is reached. Nobody is loved. Nobody becomes more like Christ. It’s got to stop.
That’s just my opinion. What do you guys think?
Well said. Having been on both the ‘giving’ and the ‘receiving’ end of this situation myself, my take is that the behavior not only reflects a great deal of immaturity…..but more-so, INSECURITY.
Sorry to hear you have been heavy of heart and on the recieving end of this lately
(
Brilliant. Been feeling a lot of that lately myself.
Is the subject matter expert on criticizing churches going to make an appearance today?
it’s difficult when you’re an analysis type of individual and building the architecture for others, so that they can “do” is what you’re great at.
you can often get sucked into your hole being an introvert and you end up tearing down because that’s where we’re often vulnerable to sin…the inverse of our gifts.
but ultimately it does have to do with not being linked with other believers in creating something for god. i think “E” personality types need to use their gifts to draw out those people out and not have a “heal thyself” mentality within our own body.
batterson’s right though…the fear of failure keeps people in bondage to expanding the kingdom.
Everyone agrees it has to stop. BUT … will I let that stoppage begin with ME??
Isn’t it time? DO/SAY what is right – what builds UP – what brings blessing. God help me STOP being all mouth and little action. NO MORE CLANGING CYMBALS!
It’s so easy for us to pick at something from the outside looking in.
It’s so hard for us to get up and be the person being picked on.
If it is keeping people from seeing Christ and his Love for them right where they are … it MUST stop! We must be about reaching out to both those outside the church AND inside the church. We must stop talking about being the church and actually BE the church … the church that Acts talks so much about. it is easy to critizie but how many of us are wililng to stand up and DO something instead of just talking about it?
Christians can be each other’s worst nightmares. Fortunately, there are more who are normal. However, the ones who are hell-bent on tearing the other ones down seem to speak the loudest. Leaders live in a fishbowl. So do their families. I cannot imagine it. This life ain’t easy, but it is SO worth it. I’ll pray for you, Pete. Don’t let ‘em drag you down. There are many of us who support you and love your transparency.
Heidi Reed
great stuff pete…i’m glad to hear that it gives you a heavy heart, because it doesn’t bring God glory in any way…
if only the church had the same passion for doing what Christ has for us to do…as we have passion for being “right” or having “church” the way we want it…i like the term immaturity, i would throw in SELF-CENTERED…
I agree wholeheartedly…100%
As you know I did the post on the “Competitive Church” on my blog the other day, who knows maybe Christ is getting a little fed up with it too, as it seems to be resonating on the hearts of many. I didn’t even know about the post from Mark. Good stuff!
You really hit the nail on the head Pete. One of the things I hear most from my unchurched friends is that if churchs and Christians treat each other so badly and are so judgmental then why would they want to get involved with it.
It seems to me if we make God the most important thing in our lifes we would have less inclination to think we know what is right for everyone else or that our way to do things is the only way. For me it is a constant struggle to stop being so human in my responses and work towards what God would want me to be.
amen! how much more could we be fulfilling the great commission if we would stop criticizing each other and being divided over “little” things and, instead, work together for the same “big” goals of glorifying Him!!!
@New York Mary “No more clanging symbols”. I’m going to carry that throughout my day. Thanks.
true dat…… another great post. I think that your previous topic of Abiding is SOOO relevant to this post. Any time I have hurt people or they have hurt me – it’s because a lack of abiding. When you are abiding in Him, you are conformed with His spirit and even if you do mess up – The Spirit will nudge you about it and you will humbly do what you can to make resolution. The fact that the majority of the world has HORRIBLE people skills is directly related to how we don’t pursue God and don’t actively abide in Him. The church is sometimes the worst at this.
We like being “insiders” and don’t worry about the outsiders or helping people feel included – we like to pretend we’re in an exclusive club — but God wants us to let the world know that this club is ALL inclusive. He wants us to lift people up, to let them tell THEIR story, to let them talk about themselves, to keep attention on them to let them know they are special and worth listening to and they are valued and that people care about their story. Instead we’re so focused on talkign about ME, all about I, what I have learned, what God is teaching me…. and when we are so self focused that is when we hurt others.
If we could only be LONG TERM focused, our relationship stress would be non existant. none of this “stuff” we argue about is eternally important! We don’t need all the answers now, above all else we need to love people while we’re here and spread the love and acceptance Jesus gives us.
I definitely used to tear people down in the face of “sharpening” them and I have been cut down and made to feel like an outsider by so many — yet we’re all insiders – we all have the same value in Christ and He wants us to recognize that.
all my relationship stresses seem to be because of my own mistakes. because Jesus althoguh didn’t come to bring peace — he DID bring relationship reconciliation.
james 4:1
Ephesians 2:5
imagine what the church would be like if we were others-focused….making sure others felt valued, accepted, appreciated, important. Imagine if we were each other’s cheerleaders encouraging and backing each other!? not sneering and discouraging and one-uping! it would be heaven.
Yeah, I believe women have the tendency to put people down more than men…it’s a big competitive thing….but really, when we open our mouths and start it, FOR ME, I just begin to silently pray and say “now God, you know that wasn’t nice of me…I’m sorry and help me to be more conscience of what I’m doing, did it help that person? Or did it harm them??” It’s something you always have to stay on guard with and the benefit out of it is that your constantly in communication w/God…so that’s HUGE plus… it makes my day so much better!!
p.s. it is so amazing how God keeps us believers in tune — your blog seems to always be one of the ways that God affirms the teaching He is laying on my heart. I have been thinking about relationships a lot, especially relationships in the church – and outsiders…. in fact I was talking to my hubby about it and was thinking, geez I wish we could have a people skills class in our church – it seems basic people skills (which are completely Biblical universal success principles) are becoming a lost pasttime in our culture. We need to learn to listen to others — les giblin and dale carnegie 101 (never criticize, condemn or complain) — all straight from the Bible! n e way – time to hit the beach -
Thanks for your blog
maybe some day i can make my blog public again — I had to make it private because I had a christian blog visitor that I had hurt a long time ago that would condemn and criticize everything I posted….I guess I was just reaping the wrong I had done but there was always something for her to critize — either the sins I confessed were TOO bad… or the posts full of praise for God were too showy… geesh…. so I had to pull away and stop giving and make my blog private – it’s a shame what we do to each other. I was so discouraged and so torn down because of these little remarks – I don’t want anybody to ever feel the way those comments made me feel – why can’t we be happy for each other when we’re on a mountain? we can’t compare ourselves to each other and be envious of what God is speaking into other’s lives – we should rejoice in each other’s victories…but that’s not what our competitive culture teaches us – but since when are we supposed to be so worldly.
It is easy to get discourage. Unfortunately bad comments, gossip and other bad things happen in churches like everywhere else. We must stay focus on what needs to get done regardless of all the other things around us. We answer to the one and only Jesus Christ and his work must go on regardless. I learn to after many angry moments to pray and stay on track and look for the positive and rewarding moments that a working christian may see from time to time. Remember our price is not here!!!!
Mark briefly mentioned this at Whiteboard. He said, “There is too much sideways energy in the Church.” I agree. No wonder the American Church is in decline. If we can’t get along with each other how can we possibly reach people?
Absolutely true! When will people realize that with their “holier than thou” attitudes, they only push people away from Christ and the church? Honestly, I have had too, too much of my share of the pie in the last few years. At a time when I desperately needed encouragement and friendship, I received the looks, wispers, assumptions, etc. and I had not done anything!! Where I was once so solid in my faith and belief, I am sad to say I am no longer. I try to continue on in order to set an example for my teenagers but it is a struggle since I am now such a “doubting Thomas” when it comes to ‘Christians” and the church.
ouch! i was just regretting some ‘funny’ sarcasm i threw at some one. sometimes i just ‘have to’ crack a joke, but then realize how wrong the receiver could take it but it’s to late to take it back. …i know there’s a balance there…
thanks for the challenge.
Good reminder. There is way too much of this in the church at large but I’m also seeing more and more churches that are changing this trend and working together. It’s encouraging to see. We’re all on the same team so when one of us has a win, we all win together.
What I find funny is that we all want the same things in life. The quantity may be different for everyone but the needs are basic and the same. We all want to loved and respected. I sometimes find myself digging for something critical to say or point out when I find myself jealous. And like Pete said “nobody wins”. I always feel like “I shouldn’t have said that” when I am condemning and I don’t think I have ever ask myself that question when I am building someone up. Admitting that someone is doing it right means I am doing it wrong-RIGHT(sarcasm included)? I find myself not only saying things to tear others down but I am very good at doing it to myself as well. The thought of being positive seems so simple yet is so hard. Just like accepting God’s love and plan for our lives. Simple yet so hard! I am with you Pete, it needs to STOP and it begins with me. Thanks for making me think about my motivation when talking to and about others!
Remember the old saying “Sticks and Stones can break my bones, but words can never harm me”.
Not true.
If only the churches in each community that are striving to reach the lost would ban together. What amazing things God could do if there was unity. But..one church has loud music(oopps..that’s us), one hymns, one KJV, one any version, one requires a dress code, and on and on. I’m sure God watches all of us and is horrified at times. How many are going to hell because of the church?? This makes me even more excited about our new church launch…..39 days till our first preview service.
This is so true. I can think of many friends of mine that don’t know the Lord, and the trend lately is that the first thing I have to unpack for them is why the current evangelical community seems to be so divided. I don’t think they really even know what they are saying, but what they are perceiving is we don’t appear to be on the same team. If we all have the same eternal goal, why do we seem so at war with each other? I’m thankful for these kinds of friends. It’s humbling.
i agree
and here’s the crazy part….
if all this criticizing looks foolish to those of us within the Church, just think what it looks like to those outside of the Church
Just found your blog (because you commented on mine!), and I love it. This is such an important point: it’s shameful and downright sinful that we Chrisitains spend so much time criticising one another. I’m not saying we don’t have our differences, and there are expressions of faith out there that need some loving nudges from time to time, but the bitterness in which the discussion often happens is not fruitful. I’d go further than what you said: not only is no one brought closer to Christ, I think we and others are pushed away.
One thing that’s helpful to me when I’m on the receiving end of potshots is to remember that it might be coming from the other person’s insecurity. If I have reflected and prayed and sought god, then I can and should continue with integrity, and let the remarks fall away. If not, then I need to consider if and where the remarks might be valid criticism– now that’s a harder pill to swallow!
Blessings, Becca
I’m with you, buddy. I cringe when I hear other chuches/pastors get slammed. But it seems only the larger, successful, contemporary churches get targeted though. People say that large churches aren’t capable of good discipleship, spend too much money, etc. You hear the same old stuff from different sources. Rarely does anyone criticize the traditional church down the street on the corner who has been running the same 50 people in attendance for 40 years.
In my opinion, bigger church = bigger target. What do you think?
This whole diatribe is another example of how the church and the church leadership are hoping to eliminate anyone saying anything that is contrary to their “candy kisses” approach to sharing the Gospel. I think it’s unrealistic for anyone to absolutely say or determine that anyone/everyone that is critical is not doing anything and needs to criticize in order to feel better about themselves. Isn’t saying that, in itself, being critical? How does Mark Batterson justify his criticism? There is so much hidden hypocrisy that is blanketed under the “well, we’re all Christians” so let’s just love each other and never once… use iron to hopefully sharpen iron. No one wants to be exposed. No one wants to truly confess to anything. Only elude to how they may have or once were like this or that… and etc… How quaint, how conducive to blind faith, and how apropos for those wishing to be beyond and above reproach. Obviously, no one will probably ever really like being criticized. I’m sure that’s how the Pharisees and Sadducees felt about Jesus. And, if you can tell me that Jesus was not critical of them, then you make my point even more so. I think some of us need to grow up, thicken up our skin a little, and take what we need sometimes… which is… criticism. Perhaps there is some sort of divining rod that Mark Batterson has that allows him to know the heart of another? The only wanting “yes” people around is very, very troubling to me. It’s spiritual censorship. It’s indicative of super-sensitivity. Criticism was something I believe Jesus was able to handle… especially when it was absolutely false criticism. But, for anyone to say that no one should/can be critiqued… c’mon… REALLY! Does anyone remember what Moses said to the people that were worshiping the Golden Bull and other false idols? Was he or wasn’t he…. critical? I suppose he could have been more milquetoast. That seems to be how the “church people” want it these days. But, the truth is the truth and it isn’t always sparkles and sunshine. Sometimes it’s difficult and it’s only heard and heeded when it comes in the form of something a little sharper… like a sword.
I have so many thought rolling around in my head now, I don’t know what to comment on.
Sometimes church is middle school all over again, only in the name of God!
Sometimes we are so defensive that when someone is talking all we hear is criticism even when they don’t have that intention at all.
Most often I think it is a misunderstanding about our own role in what God is showing us.
I have a friend who has all these great ideas, and wants her church to listen to her. When they don’t, she gets so hurt and upset and complains. I finally told her… if God is showing these things to you, maybe YOU are supposed to go do them. Perhaps he isn’t telling THEM… he is telling YOU. You know what? She felt a lot better, and went off to start what she had the vision to do.
Blessings, Pete. I love your blog!
Heidi
@godzgaljen I totally agree we should ban together. I don’t necessarily think this means we fold our “styles” into one another. I think different churches reach different people.
I just want us to get to a place where we can respect and even celebrate our different styles and realize we are all on the same team!
AMEN!!! Your timing in posting this is interesting. I’ve been thinking on writing something similar a lot lately. I am all too familiar with this in the church and have been on the receiving end of it all too often and you’re right, it has GOT to stop. It kills and destroys the work that God wants to do ultimately. I have often pictured God’s reaction when He says His children behaving in such ways. It must break His heart. Aren’t we all in this together?
You’re right, the problem comes in when there are some that just don’t really want to DO anything, but they don’t want anyone else to either. They’re scared to death it might just show them up. It’s time for the church to grow up! We’re not in highschool anymore people. There’s a lot of work to be done. Let’s just all join hands, lay our pride and ourselves aside and do what God has called us all to do together. If not, you’re totally right. NO ONE WINS! And THAT is a shame.
I never stop doing…so i never stop getting shot at. I have a great team around me to provide protection
I think this is an issue that permeates every aspect of our lives now. We have candidates running for President almost 3 out of every 4 years. They continually bash each other and that begins to get into our lives too as so many other aspects of the world around us.
There is a great book called “Telling Yourself the Truth” which talks about “good self-talk” and “bad self-talk”. (If you haven’t read it you really should, especially if you have self esteem issues) We begin to believe what we tell ourselves just as we begin to believe what we are told if it is done repeatedly enough.
We hear “bad talk” form every aspect of society but we as Christians have not really bought into the idea of being Holy (set apart). We want to and need to be in society so we can reach those who need reaching but we take on more of them, too many times, than we give to them. We are becoming more like them than they are like us. This of course shows up in our churches and the way we operate our churches.
As leaders it is easy to think how we can put down the rebellion instead of pray for our people. We tend to lift ourselves up by putting others down. We have not really bought into being Holy. We have been set apart by God and that means our motivations and our actions need to be set apart as well. We gave up our right to have things our way when we accepted Christ. It is His way now, whatever that may bring. When we ask Christ into our lives so many times we hear the phrase, “Make Him your Lord and Savior”. We say we will but we really just mean make Him our Savior. That Lord stuff is way too hard and doesn’t make much sense anyhow. If we work daily to surrender ALL our ourselves to Him other issues tend to fade away.
Sorry guys I didn’t mean to preach but it is a tender issue with me.
Now if someone could take up the offering we will continue with our worship.
You are dismissed!
What a great post! Bring it on.
If we are about the Father’s business we need to be speaking life!
I found some quotes a few weeks ago as I was learning so hard lessons….
“I do not need to make others wrong for me to be right.”
“I do not need to justify/explain/correct/set the record straight.” People need to stop and just think.
@Judas Icarus, I certainly agree with your comment that we shouldn’t surround ourselves with “yes” men. Accountability at all levels of leadership is crucial.
There are some other things in your comment that we probably don’t see eye to eye on. But here’s the deal. I’m not going to argue with you today. Instead I’m going to take the next few moments just to pray for you.
Chuck, I know you have been hurt by the church. I served on staff with you at one of the church’s you were hurt by. I get it. I know that pain. But I’m praying you can move beyond that pain and allow God to heal your hurts. I’m praying that you can get that personality and laugh back that was so contagious to many. I’m praying that there will be a day you can get back on that stage and lead worship from your heart as you used to. I’m praying. I miss my old friend.
Sorry but I have to jump back in here. Judas I have to say I agree with a lot of what you said. Jesus called his own disciples some pretty rough things. I think the issue is with the motivation for the oomments. (Someone correct me if you think that is wrong)
@JI I think that is what hurts your comments a lot. People are curious as to your motivation and that casts a shadow over everything you say. I mean, I’m Harold McKee you can find me in the phonebook. I have to stand behind what I say and believe me it has been hard with some of the dumb stuff that I have said over the years. Maybe you are someone too close to the issues you address to have your name known without some firestorm being created. If that is true then find another way to effect change where you feel it needs to be affected. I think you may have a lot of things to say that really need to be apart of the Chritian dialog. That doesn’t mean I will think they are right but all points need to be heard if they are presented with Christ’s love in mind and an ultimate goal of reconciliation. We are ONE BODY!
@Judas Iscariot – Its amazing when you pull a dog’s tail how he will yelp and try to bite you! If you press on someone’s bruise they are likely to scream and whence.
I blogged on a similar topic on my blog the other day “The Competitive Church” you are welcome to come read it at http://www.nickcarnes.com – but I believe 3 John 11 tells us best how to deal with you and your “wisdom,” “Dear friend, don’t let this bad example influence you…” See, enough time wasted already.
Hello Pete,
This is an exceptional point as most of your respondents have acknowledged, however, I find it to be just the first step. It is not just about finding the negative in other Christian religions, but all other religions. It is about embracing all who inhabit this beautiful world we’ve been given and that absolutely means finding that within all others that we have that is alike as apposed to how we differ. It is about finding that person that makes your blood boil with frustration because they believe in that which you find to be vial, but finding it in your heart to forgive them and love them anyway.
We are all connected to everyone else and everything else, so while I applaud the sentiments that both you and Mark are instigating, I find that it is an amazing first step, but far more must be considered. When you and everyone in this world who calls themselves a Christian can place your arms around me…a gay man telling me that I am loved, that is the fresh start that matches the efforts of Christ himself. I dare to dream that it is possible and I greatly thank you…everybody needs a starting point and this is a good one. I just prey that all religious people can find it in their hearts to understand the concepts spoken of by Christ…true Unconditional Love for everyone and every thing.
Your humble servant – Todd M. Dobson
Couldn’t agree more! Good stuff!
People throw trash in ‘trash cans’ – I don’t hear a lot of crap about others, because people know that they CAN’T throw that stuff my way. There are WAY too many people who listen to the junk and then, later, decide they’re offended.
We should be known as pure vessels not garbage receptacles. A lot of frustration could be avoided IF we just refused to hear/read the rubbish.
Appreciate your (and Mark Batterson’s) stance on this.
I love Colson’s book “Being the Body”
“Unity is the single most effective form of evangelism.”
This is why I love our church. Growing up in a church of christ and hearing how catholics and baptists were all going to hell drove me crazy. I was like, how do you know and who are you? Unfortunatly, this is where I learned to question authority, because this trait has assisted in getting me into trouble throughout the years. The good thing about you, Pete, is I don’t have to question what you say because of the your approach, thank you, brother.
I knew he would show up and not disappoint.
Way to go GI, You called the JI post before it happened. Hey Judas what is your REAL NAME.
I am usually good at predicting stuff but it was like picking Nebraska over Podunk St. to easy.
Luke 9:49-50
John spoke up, “Master, we saw a man using your name to expel demons and we stopped him because he wasn’t of our group.”
Jesus said, “Don’t stop him. If he’s not an enemy, he’s an ally.” (MSG)
Yes, I know Lord, but he’s using unorthodox means!
If he’s not an enemy, he’s an ally.
I know, I know Lord, but it bothers me when people do stuff differently. It offends me! I mean, it’s just not right – is it?
If he’s not an enemy, he’s an ally.
Alright Lord, so what your saying is…
If he’s not an enemy, he’s an ally.
Got it.
When I’m confronted by someone with an extreme critical spirit, it helps to realize that they have obviously been wounded by someone in their past. It is only through abiding in the love of Jesus Christ that we can be healed from our wounds. People who go over the top to criticize and “swing the sword” are really only trying to keep God at arms length because they are afraid to truly surrender to His love. I love the lyrics to the song Desperado by the Eagles: Desperado, why don’t you come to your senses You been out ridin fences for so long now O you’re a hard one, but I know that you got your reasons…. You better let somebody love you before it’s too late.
You’re right GI, he almost never disappoints. I think what Harold said sums it up well. “We gave up our right to have things our way when we accepted Christ.”
That is really where a critical spirit comes from, failure to submit to the Lordship of Christ. It’s alright to express opinions, but it is never right to lay into someone with malice in our heart. If we do, we can be sure of one thing, it didn’t come from Jesus.
Preach it brother!
Well said Tommy.
My what an appropriate post for me today. I am working hard and praying for help with my practice of non-judgement. Constructive criticism is something that has it’s place, and can be helpful in order to grow. I don’t think anyone can really deny that. But when the criticism is in the form of an attack, or about being exclusive, who really wins? I was raised with examples of judgement and prejudice on a regular basis. What seemed to happen was a cancerous growth of suspiscion and mistrust of anyone not a part of “the family”. In my opinion, when you judge and criticize with mallice, you pretty much assume it is being done to you as well (even if it’s not) and thus the cycle perpetuates. I was told as recently as yesterday that I work so hard at “appearing non-judgemental” that I appear not to care ~ so this is an issue very close to my heart right now. I do want to grow, I do care, I’m not perfect, and I want to be more like Jesus. I want to be that strong.
unfortunately, this is a sad reality in the body of believers. i think some believers aren’t even aware they do it, but then there are others who are clearly aware of their intentions. it’s high time we all start wearing some holes in the knees of our blue jeans.
have you heard the song by Sanctus Real…”We Need Each Other”
Pete, very well said! This is such an important reminder for me -not one person is immune to this hurtful temptation. Personally, my prayer is that I celebrate every victory with my friends and encourage them along the way. After all, I make a concerted effort to surround myself with people who strengthen and lift me up during the good times and the not so good times. Jealous people drain my spirit not to mention negatively spreads like wildfire and it’s so easy for me to join in on the “fun”… Thanks again for this great post!
I think there is a deeper question. A couple posts ago, a lady challenged you Pete, about being sarcastic. I loved your response to her. To me, the problem isn’t us criticizing and challenging each other. The problem is so few of us remember we are supposed to be considering each other before ourselves. We don’t love the way Christ has called us to love.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
I just want to add one more thing. The people that read and interact on Without Wax would make a kick ____ small group. There is a true sense of honesty in almost every comment. Even those of the infamous Judas are honest comments from where he is at this moment. We have all been in those situations where honesty was sacrificed on the altar of unity. That is not a good thing either. My prayer for all of us is that we hold ourselves and each other accountable. Let’s get after one another, in love, and push that bar of what being a follower of Christ really means. Let’s reach for that abundant life on a consistant basis. You guys make me better!
We had a similar message at our church a few weeks ago. We actually did a cool thing – we traded pastors for three weeks with each other. We talked about walking together rather than against each other. We even served our community together as one big C kinda church. In addition, the message our pastor talked about the Church with a big C being the bride of Christ. If we insult other Churches, we are insulting Christ and his bride. Why do it. We all believe in God. We all believe in Christ. All of our individual religions are based on our love of God and Jesus. Did God intend for us to splinter off like this? In my humble opinion – no.
i have a couple good friends who are atheists and this is one of the things they bring up the most. that “we” are all talk no action. We say to love one another then stab our best friend, in the front.
and i am guilty of it. ashamedly. and i know better.
stephanie – AMEN!
I’m with ya, man.
Pete,
Well said. And from all the comments on here.. It sounds like you are not the only person who is feeling this way. I know that I feel it as well. We are so counter productive when we taking “shots” at other and it only takes away from the awesome things that God has for us.
Thanks for getting the wheels turning in not just my head but so many others.
YOur post today certainly touches a devastating truth. Thanks for bringing it up.
I can relate to the people who’ve been hurt by “The Church”…the church that they have been a part of. After being an active member (in a lay-leadership role) for 25+ years, my husband and I were devestatedly hurt by “some” and they wouldn’t own it. We felt led to leave this congregation due to the direction that leadership was going AFTER forcing the lead pastor to resign. There was some other stuff involved too but it was one of “those things”!! That being said…we moved on and now are a part of a different congregation and healing. It is hard to look back and NOT criticize…but instead we try to pray for those people. It’s in scripture in fact, that we are to do so.
It’s easy to “hold on” to past hurts and that leads to bitterness. I so want to be devoted to my Savior and when we finally meet…to hear “well done, good and faithful servant!” What others may have done…they will be accountible for!
My husband has this to say about people who criticize…”they have the ‘gift’ of criticism!”
I have been saying this over and over again until I am tired..but the last time I checked we were all suppose to be working for the same man! My husband was asked in an interview for pastor recently how he would deal with criticism. He said fine if it was based on biblical principles. There is such a thing as contructive criticism. I’m not so sure blasting someone in a open forum (like a blog, message board, or christian magazine website )is the answer! Especially when you don’t even know said person. I have met a lot of people over the net, only the ones that I have actually met in person can I actually say I “know”, and even then its from first impression (so I don’t really know them). It amazes me that people criticize a church body based on sound bytes or news articles when they do not personaly know that person. My husband once did a sermon where he stated until you can meet a persons felt needs you have know right trying to minister to their personal needs 9or admonishing them for their sins). I didn’t think about it much at the time, but now I get it. Ministry is hard, being a Christian is hard, its made even harder when Christians spend more time tearing each other down rather then building each other up so that we can go out and do what God really intended for us to do. Even when you think someone is wrong, unless you have a way to contact and talk to them in person (privately) about your concerns then I say….get over it. We have always told our children…you do what you can do, and leave the rest in God’s hands. Last time I checked he was in control!
Well said. We’ve just started the series One Prayer and I pray that it’ll make us a better church by uniting us together to achieve the same purpose. I’ve seen the comments and the recent video with Hybels. It’s time for that crap to stop.
While I agree Christian’s need to stop taking shots at one another I have found the difference comes in with views.
One person may take the God loves every one route. Which is true but inaccurate. He does love every one but he doesn’t accept every one.
@Pete Once again I am blessed by the Christ like example you have shown here in your blog. It would be easy to argue or ignore or even delete JI’s comments, but instead you reach out to him in love telling him you miss him, hoping for his healing and praying for him.
This is how we should be responding to each other. Turning the other cheek.
@Judas We met previously in another post, where I asked you to seek to understand. Now it is I that need to heed my own advice. I think most people will agree that constructive criticism spoken in love and delivered at the appropriate time and place is a healthy method to help someone continue to develop and grow. But your comments continue to exude an anger and bitterness that is not constructive or spoken in love. Although it is easy to want to debate you, I think that Pete was very wise to see and all of us should also have been seeking to understand your motivations. Anger is typically just an outward symptom of fear, hurt or frustration. You may have all three. Pete seems to know your pain and understands that you have been hurt in the past. Given this new information, I am going to follow in Pete’s footsteps tonight and pray for you. Please keep in mind, God knows your pain and your heart and we never ever can. So I hope that you will begin to take this fight, your hurt, your pain and your anger to Him because He is the only one who can change it. Nothing you say in this forum will heal your hurt. It will only fester it more. Take it to God. I’m praying for you now.
Amy
I’ve thought alot about this due to many different circumstances in my life, plus the challenge and joy of being in ministry. I even blogged about it although my emphasis was more on comparison of our own personal spiritual journeys. (http://aworshipfulheart.typepad.com/a_worshipful_heart/2008/06/we-are-all-on-the-journey.html) I’d love for you to drop by and comment. And some who have commented are correct. In being frustrated with those who criticize constantly and have this negative attitude (which i think is the difference between just offering needed criticism for helpful change and pointless, hurtful sentiments) I face the very dilemma I detest. It is very hard to remain patient and loving and even open to what God is doing. I think sometimes God uses our places of “holy discontent” (to borrow a phrase) to initiate God-ordained change. But MOST of the time I see a very selfish and unloving attitude in the criticism I hear. Perhaps “unloving” is a key concept in discerning this. Good conversation and reminder.
Have you ever found yourself weeding through posts to find the ones that are specifically about what you said in your last post? 8>0 I ask this question to suggest that the phenomenon of disagreements becoming hostile and personal in this venue (aka, ‘flaming) is probably an unwanted evil that accompanies all blogs, bulletin boards, and forums. We’ve seen the positive benefits of this type of communicating. We’ve also seen that this form of communication can be exceedingly narcissistic.
The hostility this type of communication breeds isn’t really much different from the hostility we experience when driving…anger and criticism expressed without personal accountability. This is particularly true in those who criticize others in blogs anonymously.
Because we can’t consider facial expressions and tone of speech since aren’t communicating face to face, AND because we have our imaginations doing most of the ‘filling in the blanks’, AND because some have more trouble than others expressing their true thoughts and feelings through written words, this type of communication is only partially real.
The first time I went to bed pissed off about something someone wrote in a blog I knew it was time to take a break and talk to some real people. I can’t do these things every day or it starts becoming my reality….which it’s definitely not.
I am a little late to this convo, and somebody might have already said this (sorry no time to read all the comments) but somebody way wiser then me told me once (and I am pretty sure he stole it too) was that we are the only “army” that shoots our wounded. I know that I have been guilty of this, but I think that sometimes we take it a step further and shoot our healthy fighting men and women too. I know that is the same thing you have already said. But for me when I read your post it was like God was again reminding me about the gossiping issues I have. Seriously…your blog rocks.
@ Judas — you are way more intelligent than me and obviously more Bible & religion educated as well….but I’d like to respond
There is a big difference between criticism / condemnation vs. allowing God to use each other to sharpen each other with the Truth? It’s all about the person’s heart who is doing the enlightening and it’s all about the WAY it’s done.
First of all – Jesus would never pay attention to the details we do would He? He was so eternity-focused – that to answer your question – no I don’t believe He was in the TEENIEST bit “critical” as we know it.
I appreciate your passion and your ability to want answers and to open up dicsussions…. but in reply to your post…. I guess the biggest difference between Jesus & critics is at the heart of the matter… The mercy and grace He extended was always the focus, right?
It’s amazing to me that the ONE person on this earth that had the “right” to be critical and condemn and belittle everybody didn’t…
I think that we each individually should focus on BEING the change we want to see — not from talking – but doing. and I don’t think that God would ever allow us to see the sin in another to condemn it – but to pray for it and do opposite to be the example….IF we have a close enough relationship with the person He MAY call us to step in and sharpen the person – but again….the relationship has to be built, there has to be trust – it has to be done with the right heart and motive – or the person will see right through our facade and see a condemner with a plank in his eye
I appreciate your challenging posts – God bless
God bless you all
P.S. @Judas (I tried to find your blog but couldn’t so I’ll just write you here)
I’m thinking more about this ‘sharpening’….for iron to sharpen iron — that implies to me they are both sharpening each other. Haven’t you heard that whatever we hate in others is because we have the same thing in ourselves? I’m thinking maybe iron sharpening iron — is about using each other to help each other get over the impurities we have by focusing on the friction (the friction between the Word of God and the sin we have in our lives)….so if somebody or something’s sin is so blantant to us and just so ugly that we can’t stand but talk about it and confront the person with it — it’s probably because we have the same imperfection and God wants us to help each other sharpen that impurity out of each other through focusing on Jesus. by focusing on the Truth together (not focusing on the impurity but focusing on the solution) then iron sharpens iron…
Don’t you believe it’s true whatever we focus on becomes greater in our lives??? To battle sin and problems – we should focus on Jesus and righteousness to cancel them out — we shouldn’t focus on the impurities, right??
Here’s a post entitled, Mercy & Love Not Condemnation —- half way down there is “mercy when confronted with the sin in others” — maybe you can check it out
http://randijosjourney.blogspot.com/2008/03/mercy-love-not-condemnation-post-3-of-4.html
either way – building a relationship before sharpening is extremely important. If this girl, Ms. Iron came up to me ready to sharpen and I didn’t even trust or know her or have a relationship at all – I’d do whatever I could to NOT be sharpened by this person – I’d say that ms. iron ought to take some time to build a relationship and look for the good in me and draw that out instead of just trying to get rid of my bad.
I don’t know – I probably am not making any sense haha but I tried
So–what is the difference between criticism and prophetic discernment?
@Randi. Very true. No relationship = No influence.
@minnowspeaks How would you define prophetic discernment?
@minnowspeaks
(thanks for the comment on my blog – I will respond to you later)
criticism to me has a negative connotation. focusing on the negative.
prophetic discernment to me is the knowledge — criticism is what SOME choose to do with the knowledge
?
I’m still trying to figure out what is so bad about criticixm. Guess it’s all in how you define the word. I think Christ criticized people all over the place if you define it as telling someone why you think what they’re doing is wrong. Criticism has it’s time and place, doesn’t it? Is it always all bad? When people send songs in for critiques I’m not sure they’d get it if a publisher said, “I don’t like to criticize, but here’s a little prophetic discernment on your song.” Not trying to be a smart ___ but c’mom…I need criticism big time…and I get it! How much I decide to buy into unconstructive criticism is usually a dirct refletion of my mental health (or lack thereof) at the time I get it. How well I take constructive criticism and let it help me grow is a reflection of the exact same thing…especially if it hits a nerve. Am I missing something?
yeah I guess it really is a technical/definition thing we’re talking about…
my definition of criticism is…. the act of passing severe judgment / faultfinding
so focusing on the faults in others instead of looking for any good.
I love sermons and friends that step on my toes and sharpen me. but I guess there’s some people who are ALWAYS critical and I don’t believe we are called to be like that at all. I don’t enjoy listening to negativity all the time at all. Why not focus on the positive things and let God work on the rest?
Like I was trying to say before though – the critique has to come with the right heart – or it is just negative criticism that nobody wants to hear. and it has to come in the right place/right time.
and to tell you the truth – I think because we are not close to having the heart of Jesus or His people skills or wisdom — that for us – criticism should stay on a personal and private level when we are nudged to sharpen each other.
I don’t believe we are called to fix each other or point out each other’s flaws. but we are called to love on each other – encourage out the good – pray for the bad. We are called to talk about and promote and be an example for Truth — the Truth is what convicts and changes people. We are not the fixers.
SOMETIMES God will use us to sharpen our circle of influence but it in my opinion it wouldn’t be public and it would also be encouraging and uplifting at the same time of keeping a person accountable
@Bill I think we are talking about two different things. I’m all for feedback and constructive criticism that comes with a heart of trying to help me be more like Christ or even improve a skill set.
You and I have been a part of ministries together before where we both gave critiques that led to some positive changes. That’s not what I’m really addressing in this post.
I’m addressing the Christians that don’t want to get involved at any level but have allowed their entire life to center around pointing out the faults and failures of good hearted people who are attempting to change this world through ministry.
My ministry has been greatly improved by fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who have been willing to constructively point out changes that needed to be made in my life. I meet with an accountability partner several times a week with the intent purpose of him giving me feedback on my spiritual walk.
However, the people who have shaped me through their words all have on things in common. They had a relationship with me. They knew me. They have spent as much time encouraging me as they have critiquing me.
I want us to sharpen each other. I just want us to be careful. Don’t allow your life to be summed up by sitting on the sidelines criticizing the players when you’re never even willing to get in the game yourself. Don’t allow your ministry to become being an anonymous critic of fellow believers who is amazingly brave sitting behind a computer but it to afraid to engage in real life and ministry.
Be a part of the process. Be a part of the change. Get on the front line and do life with people in such a way that you can bring about positive change because you have invested in them.
Thanks Bill for encouraging me to clarify these thoughts.
I hear ya Pastor Pete. I am pickin up what you’re putting down hehe. Thank you for that clarification on the subject. It was very clear and succinct unlike my usual ramblings bla bla bla
@Pete. What you said in your post and what you said in your most recent comment are at least different paragraphs if not completely different pages. The clarification helps and somewhat sorts out what I see as the difference between criticism (negative talk with a critical spirit) and prophetic discernment (critical talk with the heart of God–in so far as we are able).
I was concerned because JI took some pretty hard (sarcastic) hits in part because like me he does not use a legal (given) name. The very point about the proper use of (time for) criticism was not extended to JI. Some commentors assumed they knew him and his motives, dismissed his point(s), and proceeded to strike him. To the outsider it seemed like bullying due to prior experience. GI even taunted JI before he made a comment. Dangerous topic this one.
Pete: I agree that we do not need to criticize methodology…but frankly there is a lot of just really bad stuff out there.. beliefs that are not Biblical being taught…We can not ignore this.