Gender or Giftedness?
Hi everyone! It’s an honor to be a guest on Pete’s blog. For those of you who don’t know me, my name is Jenni Catron, and I work alongside Pete at Cross Point.
There is a question that we get a lot at Cross Point that I thought I would open up for discussion. The question is, “Where do you allow women to serve in leadership at Cross Point?” Frankly, I hate this question. While I am the first to support and encourage women, I’m also slow to demand equal representation of the sexes, especially in the church. For the most part, I haven’t worried much about this question. I have never really felt like my gender has held me back from serving as I feel like God has gifted me to serve. I realize, however, that I may be the exception rather than the norm. I’m blessed to work and serve at a church that understands and values women operating in their God-given gifts. For me that plays out in my role as Executive Director. My top gifts of Administration and Leadership serve me well in this capacity. (Note that I am usually the lone female among a sea of males in the leadership circles that I run in, even at Cross Point.)
I think the challenge here is to quit seeing gender and to begin seeing giftedness. As I have studied women throughout scripture, I’ve discovered some amazing chicks operating in their gifts. There are the obvious ones like Esther, Ruth and Mary, but then there are some even more obscure women in the New Testament like Tabitha – called a helper and leader, Priscilla – a teacher in the New Testament church, and Phoebe of Cenchreae – an administrative leader that I hope to meet in heaven one day because I’m sure we’ll be in charge of something together! The scripture is clear that God used women in powerful ways and I believe He still intends to do so today.
Unfortunately I feel like culturally women have been raising a battle cry for equality with men that can be boiled down to simply a cry for equal representation rather than a desire to see women allowed to operate in their areas of giftedness. In a desire to find our voice, rules and restrictions have been created such as requiring equal representation of males and females on committees, worship teams, etc. It’s become about being equal in number rather than about being valued for what we uniquely bring to the table.
I don’t believe that God is as concerned about gender as He is about our hearts and attitude for service. If I’m truly seeking to serve Him by using the gifts He has given me, I have to trust that He will put me in the circles where He can best use me.
Is there any role in the church where you believe that women should not serve? Go ahead, let’s open it up!
As we study the New Testament church, it seems we find Paul speaking, many times, to the cultural norms of the time. I agree with you on the value of women in leadership positions in the church. It would be hard for the modern day church to minister effectively without them.
However, as we look at the positions of pastor and elder, Paul seems to deal with them, a little more exclusively.
What do you think, Jenni? Ball’s back in your court.
Jenni
I totaly agree with your statment that God is more interested in our hearts than our gender and don’t believe that there is any role where gender should stop someone from serving at Cross Points. But I also believe someone truly serving God would always think of where God wants them to be, not where they want to be and leave the politics out of it
Jenni you are proof that giftedness and not gender should rule the day in Christ’s church. As we look to the bible for direction on this it is interesting all the things that tend to confuse us.
We are told in Christ there is no male or female.
Paul says that women should be quite in church.
There is the whole covering the head not covering the head which is a gender specific reference implying that there in fact differences between male and female in the early Chritian Church.
We see the names in women in the New Testament that were referred to as leaders or possibly deacons in the early church and there are many more that most of you can recall.
All of these read outside of any contextual understanding can be confusing. I believe having a complete understanding of the context is crucial to not only understanding these scriptures but all scriptures. I can find very little of the scriptures that are not dependent on the context for true understanding.
I think the real question is did a switch get flipped from traditional Jewish customs as they related to a females role not only in the church but in society or did an evolution begin when Christ died on the cross and then left the Holy Spirit to His followers.
I personally believe that a switch was flipped that began a societal evolution. I don’t think the question is “Can a woman lead a man?”, which is how your question eventually gets turned by some. I think the real question is can a man admit he is being led by a woman. This says that leadership is nothing more than an imposition of one person’s will over another. Leadership is actually a God-given gift being exercised and it is not gender specific. A true leader is seeking God’s will for a situation or a church not advancing their own agenda so with that criteria met I believe a woman can serve in any capacity to which God calls them.
Jenni,
I know Pete is fishing, but he doesn’t won’t use the worms from the can that was just opened. He a fly fisherman.
BA
Great discussion everyone. Tommy, to your question, I am currently doing a lot of reading/studying right now to get a better perspective on the pastor/elder role in relation to women. This is where the discussion gets really messy. My verdict is still out on that debate, but praying for clarity and understanding of the scriptures. If you have any good resources, let us know! I’m currently reading “Beyond Sex Roles: What the Bible Says about a Woman’s Place in Church and Family” by Gilbert Bilezikian
Wow-BA is right on this one…a can of worms have been opened…i’m not sure about where women should or shouldn’t serve in the church…i totally don’t want to be the one who tells a female she can’t do something (all in the name of traditionalism) when God needs her to do it—and then have to answer for that one day! I agree though it’s not about the gender, it is about your gifts…God knew what he was doing when he gifted you a certain way…I say use your gifts! Very Good Post!
Thanks, Jenni. I’ll check out that book, also I’ll share anything I run across, as well.
I think it all boils down to a question. Was Paul giving us a list of disqualifications, or was he giving us a snapshot of an ideal? If it was a list of the former, certainly it would disqualify almost all of us.
You hit the nail on the head, when you spoke of praying for clarity and understanding. God never leads us contrary to his word but rightfully dividing it, requires prayer, study and a respect to context.
Did you guys see that Nancy Beach is coming out with a new book on this, too? Gifted to lead. You can pre-buy it here.
http://www.amazon.com/Gifted-Lead-Leading-Woman-Church/dp/0310285968/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205631312&sr=1-3
Some of the most effective leaders I know in churches are women. We miss God ordained ministry and opportunity by restricting women from service.
Whew! A can of worms indeed!
I’ve done a number of studies on this. Each time I come away a little less certain of the answer. A few things I think we should bare in mind:
1) Pastoring/shepherding is a spiritual gift. We’ve made it into an office. A woman can be gifted in any area that a man is gifted in. Being spiritually gifted in an area doesn’t necessarily have to lead to authority for either a man or a woman.
2) Qualifications for leadership are clearly set out in Timothy and Titus. There is no need to guess Paul’s intent. It’s fairly straightforward. It is true that the qualifications eliminate most of us, but that’s kind of the idea. There is no need to rush to set up leadership where maturity does not exist.
3) Paul states in no uncertain terms in 1 Timothy 2 that he does not permit a man to teach a woman. His reasoning is not based upon culture, but on the created order. This makes arguing from a cultural perspective nearly impossible.
4) In Christ we are all equals. This muddies the water tremendously!
5) Many times we are overly concerned about authority in our culture. Christ said that whoever wants to be the greatest needs to be the most lowly servant of all. He modeled this by washing the disciples’ feet…even Judas’. Christ’s kingdom has a different perspective than the rest of the world. If we keep the concept of being a humble servant at the forefront, then who gets to lead whom will not be an issue.
May God have mercy on our souls for making a major mistake one way or another. May he grant us wisdom to make the right decision in our ministries.
Grace and Peace,
matt
Correction on #3 above…
“…Paul states in no uncertain terms that he does not permit a woman to teach a man.” Hopefully everyone understood. I’m sure there are more mistakes, but that one was pretty major!
Matt
I don’t know a single topic that can lead to more lively and intense discussion than this one.
I loved what you wrote, Jenni. Looking at giftedness rather than gender.
Hi Jenni! I really enjoyed your blog, and it’s so ironic because my “youth leader” and I just talked about this issue yesterday. I, like so many others that have posted, have a hard time coming away with a definite answer. As I grew up, we were taught that women should not be pastors. I never questioned the role of women until I had been away from my home church for a while. I’m still not certain where you can draw the line, if there is a line to be drawn, but I do know this:
At my home church, since I have been apart of any organization there, I have always had a WOMAN as a leader (with the exception of choir director and pastor). The men in my church, though I love them, are pretty lame. They have become spiritually lazy! It’s so so heartbreaking.. but the fact is, because they weren’t willing to step up and take action, the ladies of the church had to. For me, because I’m a chick, I think this has helped make me the woman of God that I try so hard to be today, but for the fellows in my youth group, it’s very confusing. Women are explaining that they need to step up and act like real men, but when they look around, the men they see aren’t doing anything! I can’t imagine how confused they must be.
Thanks for the blog, and for the opportunity for me to share this with someone!
It seems to me that women have gained more influence in the church. Maybe that is why more men seem to be checking out of church.
Monbiot is clearly trying to narrow the terms of the debate unilaterally and unfairly, blah blah blah. ,
Before doing so, we may fittingly make some comment on the foundation and general nature of the theory. ,